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As a consumer of Apple products I am not too keen on any of these suggestions. I agree that developers for Apple's platforms would like these and perhaps there

As a consumer of Apple products I am not too keen on any of these suggestions. I agree that developers for Apple's platforms would like these and perhaps there is some trickle-down effect for consumers. > 1: Enable users to set default app preferences. Fine, but really Maps and Email is pretty much the only one I care about. This is the best suggestion of the bunch. > 2: Open up alternate payment mechanisms… without the Apple tax. Nah. Last thing I want is to have to fill out my credit card information in every app and worry about what's going to happen with it. Apple Pay and IAP work perfectly adequately from the consumer standpoint. > 3: Allow sideloading of iOS apps. I don't think we have a problem with lack of iOS apps. In fact I wish App Store Review was stricter and took more issue with quality and dodgy business practices (i.e. excessive and addictive use of IAP). > 4: Give third-party developers equal access to APIs. What this is asking for is for Apple to effectively release features later or not at all. Or have some even more draconian App Store rules. I don't want every random app having full hardware access to spy on me as it pleases. > 5: Stop sherlocking third-party developers. Right, so Apple is not supposed to give me free access to nice features so I can continue to pay money to someone else. Right.

mpweiher 6y ago
> [alternate payment mechanisms] ...fill out my credit card information in every app Why is that the only alternative? How about app1 \ / payment service1 app2 - OS payment service framework - payment service2 app3 / \ payment service3 This is how OSes should and used to work. To define the interfaces and provide frameworks for services to integrate.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rimliu 6y ago
  And ditch the Apple tax, right? So Apple will end up will all of the headaches of the integration with none of the benefits. And if some "payment service" stops working, guess whose fault it would be.
  - lifty 6y ago
    What about the fact that we buy their 1k phones or 3k laptops? Does that not count for anything? Apparently not, it's not enough anymore. Large companies like apple want a piece of every pie. If this trend continues you will soon be able to enlist your whole life into the Apple or Amazon ecosystem, they will provide everything you need, and will just take all your productive output. Don't worry, you will have entertainment, food, accommodation... everything you need. And if you don't like it, you can switch feudal lords of course. It's a free market after all.
- rahkiin 6y ago
  In a way this is how it works. This OS Payment service framework is the App Store. You have an account there and you have your creditcard (payment server1) or PayPal (service2) or iban (service3) there. They take 30% for both handling these payments (paying PayPal, MasterCard, etc), and storing your app. And also showing your app in the catalogus of the store.
- jbverschoor 6y ago
  But it works exactly like that. I get the feeling people are bashing Apple don't have any idea how things work. Also, nobody is ever complaining about Google's 30%. As a consumer/business, I get the added benefit of 1 party and tax ruling. And it's easy to cancel my subscriptions As a developer, I get the benefit of not having to deal with all the different taxlaws. I don't have to deal with fraud. And the checkout process is way easier, so higher conversion.
mschuster91 6y ago
> Last thing I want is to have to fill out my credit card information in every app and worry about what's going to happen with it. Apple Pay and IAP work perfectly adequately from the consumer standpoint. Why should the consumer not be able to choose other payment services such as Paypal, Google Pay or Amazon Pay as a middleman?
- ratww 6y ago
  I believe the original argument is about developer choice rather than consumer choice. (I'm not saying developer choice is not important, btw) And as a consumer I can already use PayPal, mobile phone or bank for AppStore payments in my area. Would be nice to see many more services there, for sure. Ironically, devs bypassing Apple would probably limit my choice: for instance, I can't pay my Netflix with Paypal, use my phone or bank IBAN. Just credit card (this is probably different in other countries however).
ratww 6y ago
> Fine, but really Maps and Email is pretty much the only one I care about. This is the best suggestion of the bunch. I think this is already possible to a certain extent by using URL protocol handlers (like mailto, rss+feed, magnet, etc), however Apple doesn't provide a centralised control panel to choose which app. It would be cool to see Apple add that to the operating system. Ironically they would have to Sherlock RCDefaultApp. :)
bestnameever 6y ago
> Nah. Last thing I want is to have to fill out my credit card information in every app and worry about what's going to happen with it. Apple Pay and IAP work perfectly adequately from the consumer standpoint. I think the thing Astropad is missing is that the App Store is not there to just facilitate payment processing. As the name App Store describes, it is a store. Store's often have markup's of 30% or greater. That's how they make money. I guess you could argue that they have a monopoly of app stores on iOS but I'm not sure that matters. > Right, so Apple is not supposed to give me free access to nice features so I can continue to pay money to someone else. Right. I don't even think that is the argument. Their argument is that Apple should had tried to buy them because they came to market first. I think third-party developers should always be wary of what Apple is planning and have a plan to compete should Apple or whoever decide to expand their core functionality that mimics what they are doing.
- jsjohnst 6y ago
  > Store's often have markup's of 30% or greater As someone who’s worked on products sold via Amazon, Walmart, Target, Apple Retail, Microsoft Retail, Sharper Image, and many more, all I can say is developers have it great with Apple. 1) if you think Apple’s review process is arbitrary and constrictive, try getting into retail! 2) if you think 30% cut is bad, try getting into retail! Want to sell for a lower price on your website? Nope! 3) want to set the price for your product? With Amazon you might not even get that, they can arbitrarily decide to raise or lower your price with little to no warning. 4) think it’s bad that you can get yanked out of the App Store suddenly, try retail! Same happens there, and worse. Please don’t dismiss this as a “what about” reply, I’m trying to instead show this is a much bigger societal problem than just one vendor and one marketplace. Sure, we need to start somewhere, but is Apple really the one that should be targeted first?
_ph_ 6y ago
> 1: Enable users to set default app preferences. Fine, but really Maps and Email is pretty much the only one I care about. This is the best suggestion of the bunch. That is what you care about, others might care about other default apps. That's why it should be freely configurable. > 3: Allow sideloading of iOS apps. I don't think we have a problem with lack of iOS apps. In fact I wish App Store Review was stricter and took more issue with quality and dodgy business practices (i.e. excessive and addictive use of IAP). Of course there is a scarcity of iOS apps. Specifically, a scarcity of good quality apps which introduce new capabilities. There is no scarcity of candy crush clones etc. But the way Apple handles the App Store, drives developers into developing me-too clones with in-app purchases. > 4: Give third-party developers equal access to APIs. What this is asking for is for Apple to effectively release features later or not at all. Or have some even more draconian App Store rules. I don't want every random app having full hardware access to spy on me as it pleases. There might be a few APIs, where limiting public access is justified. In most cases, we are talking about access to useful and uncritical APIs. The more Apple limits access to these APIs, the more harm they do to the App eco system.
- ubermonkey 6y ago
  >That's why it should be freely configurable. This seems really, really entitled to me. There already IS a platform you can use that you can fiddle and tweak to your heart's content in Android. Apple's iOS is different, and runs on maybe 1/4 of the phones that Android does. One feature of the Apple ecosystem is this walled garden effect. By what logic do you seek to compel this non-monopoly to make changes to their business model?
  - _ph_ 6y ago
    I don't know whether this fallacy has already a name, but it should. Just because I think something could be improved about iOS, doesn't mean I didn't choose the platform I am using with care. Nor do I think that the business model of Apple is in danger, just because I can make a setting in which app to open a certain URL for example. Actually, as I am still a great fan of Apple, I think some of the suggestions have the potential to improve the business model of Apple.
dbspin 6y ago
This is an... odd comment. The article is written by a company who Apple almost put out of business (as they have many others), not by acquihire, or take over but essentially by adopting Microsoft's old 'embrace, extend, extinguish' policy. Copying a feature wholesale they could well afford to purchase should they wish to emulate it. It might be legal, but it's certainly unethical and as the article argues terrible for the apple ecosystem. Moreover, you're individual preferences 'maps and email is pretty much the only one (SIC) I care about', are not the issue at hand. I call this fallacy 'I don't want it, so you can't have it'. If you're happy with Apples increasingly walled garden of apps, great. No one is suggesting you change. Many many other people however would like to avail of the choices offered by other music services, other payment services etc. Often because Apple's offerings are unavailable or severely limited in their regions. Again - if you're happy with the Appple store, great. But, on a serious note, who cares? This article isn't about your preferences, but those of other people. Giving them more freedom doesn't detract from how you choose to use your device one iota. Ditto API's - they exist specifically so that apps don't need to have full hardware access. With apple controlling the underlying hardware API's can and are limited to prevent 'spying'. Not that that's prevented companies like Facebook from doing it anyway. What we're talking about here is leveling the playing field, in other words limiting Apples monopolistic control over their devices to the benefit of consumers.
AnonC 6y ago
>> 1: Enable users to set default app preferences. > Fine, but really Maps and Email is pretty much the only one I care about. This is the best suggestion of the bunch. At a minimum, Apple should provide a way to set defaults for the apps it bundles with iOS where there are some third party alternatives (even if they happen to be more like skins as in the case of browsers) — that would be browser, Mail, Maps, Podcasts, Calculator, Camera, Photos, iMovie, Calendar, News, Books, Documents, Spreadsheets, Presentations and more (why not change the default app that makes and receives “calls”?). It can prioritize among these and open them up in phases, but there is someone in the world for whom the defaults are annoying.
- ratww 6y ago
  You do have a valid point for some of those apps (Browser, Mail, Maps, Calendar and even "Call"), but for others (Podcasts, Calculator, Camera, Photos, iMovie, News, Books, Documents, Spreadsheets, Presentations) wouldn't just installing a new app suffice? Or are there some privileges that those apps have? (I personally don't think they should) Asking because some of those Apple apps don't even come installed by default (office apps), and most can be deleted from the phone.
  - AnonC 6y ago
    GP here. There are a few kinds of launch mechanisms in play here. It should be possible to open things that are based on links or files in a particular app as a default. This is a good model because there’s already a Files app that allows a desktop file storage/manipulation method (same with files received over email or opened from a browser). Then you also have apps that are launched directly (without a file or URL as trigger). Couple of examples: you can swipe left on the lock screen to access the Apple camera app (or press the camera icon on the bottom right). Why shouldn’t this be as seamless to launch a better third party camera app (of which there are many)? As for calculator, the one launched from Control Center is always the Apple Calculator app. It’s not possible to launch another one as easily without adding it into the widgets area in the search screen (which may already be crowded). These two examples don’t require special hardware enablement (like the Apple Pay trigger required), and can improve the lives of many users.

mpweiher 6y ago

> [alternate payment mechanisms] ...fill out my credit card information in every app Why is that the only alternative? How about app1 \ / payment service1 app2 - OS payment service framework - payment service2 app3 / \ payment service3 This is how OSes should and used to work. To define the interfaces and provide frameworks for services to integrate.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rimliu 6y ago
And ditch the Apple tax, right? So Apple will end up will all of the headaches of the integration with none of the benefits. And if some "payment service" stops working, guess whose fault it would be.
- lifty 6y ago
  What about the fact that we buy their 1k phones or 3k laptops? Does that not count for anything? Apparently not, it's not enough anymore. Large companies like apple want a piece of every pie. If this trend continues you will soon be able to enlist your whole life into the Apple or Amazon ecosystem, they will provide everything you need, and will just take all your productive output. Don't worry, you will have entertainment, food, accommodation... everything you need. And if you don't like it, you can switch feudal lords of course. It's a free market after all.
rahkiin 6y ago
In a way this is how it works. This OS Payment service framework is the App Store. You have an account there and you have your creditcard (payment server1) or PayPal (service2) or iban (service3) there. They take 30% for both handling these payments (paying PayPal, MasterCard, etc), and storing your app. And also showing your app in the catalogus of the store.
jbverschoor 6y ago
But it works exactly like that. I get the feeling people are bashing Apple don't have any idea how things work. Also, nobody is ever complaining about Google's 30%. As a consumer/business, I get the added benefit of 1 party and tax ruling. And it's easy to cancel my subscriptions As a developer, I get the benefit of not having to deal with all the different taxlaws. I don't have to deal with fraud. And the checkout process is way easier, so higher conversion.

mschuster91 6y ago

> Last thing I want is to have to fill out my credit card information in every app and worry about what's going to happen with it. Apple Pay and IAP work perfectly adequately from the consumer standpoint. Why should the consumer not be able to choose other payment services such as Paypal, Google Pay or Amazon Pay as a middleman?

ratww 6y ago
I believe the original argument is about developer choice rather than consumer choice. (I'm not saying developer choice is not important, btw) And as a consumer I can already use PayPal, mobile phone or bank for AppStore payments in my area. Would be nice to see many more services there, for sure. Ironically, devs bypassing Apple would probably limit my choice: for instance, I can't pay my Netflix with Paypal, use my phone or bank IBAN. Just credit card (this is probably different in other countries however).

ratww 6y ago

> Fine, but really Maps and Email is pretty much the only one I care about. This is the best suggestion of the bunch. I think this is already possible to a certain extent by using URL protocol handlers (like mailto, rss+feed, magnet, etc), however Apple doesn't provide a centralised control panel to choose which app. It would be cool to see Apple add that to the operating system. Ironically they would have to Sherlock RCDefaultApp. :)

bestnameever 6y ago

> Nah. Last thing I want is to have to fill out my credit card information in every app and worry about what's going to happen with it. Apple Pay and IAP work perfectly adequately from the consumer standpoint. I think the thing Astropad is missing is that the App Store is not there to just facilitate payment processing. As the name App Store describes, it is a store. Store's often have markup's of 30% or greater. That's how they make money. I guess you could argue that they have a monopoly of app stores on iOS but I'm not sure that matters. > Right, so Apple is not supposed to give me free access to nice features so I can continue to pay money to someone else. Right. I don't even think that is the argument. Their argument is that Apple should had tried to buy them because they came to market first. I think third-party developers should always be wary of what Apple is planning and have a plan to compete should Apple or whoever decide to expand their core functionality that mimics what they are doing.

jsjohnst 6y ago
> Store's often have markup's of 30% or greater As someone who’s worked on products sold via Amazon, Walmart, Target, Apple Retail, Microsoft Retail, Sharper Image, and many more, all I can say is developers have it great with Apple. 1) if you think Apple’s review process is arbitrary and constrictive, try getting into retail! 2) if you think 30% cut is bad, try getting into retail! Want to sell for a lower price on your website? Nope! 3) want to set the price for your product? With Amazon you might not even get that, they can arbitrarily decide to raise or lower your price with little to no warning. 4) think it’s bad that you can get yanked out of the App Store suddenly, try retail! Same happens there, and worse. Please don’t dismiss this as a “what about” reply, I’m trying to instead show this is a much bigger societal problem than just one vendor and one marketplace. Sure, we need to start somewhere, but is Apple really the one that should be targeted first?

_ph_ 6y ago

> 1: Enable users to set default app preferences. Fine, but really Maps and Email is pretty much the only one I care about. This is the best suggestion of the bunch. That is what you care about, others might care about other default apps. That's why it should be freely configurable. > 3: Allow sideloading of iOS apps. I don't think we have a problem with lack of iOS apps. In fact I wish App Store Review was stricter and took more issue with quality and dodgy business practices (i.e. excessive and addictive use of IAP). Of course there is a scarcity of iOS apps. Specifically, a scarcity of good quality apps which introduce new capabilities. There is no scarcity of candy crush clones etc. But the way Apple handles the App Store, drives developers into developing me-too clones with in-app purchases. > 4: Give third-party developers equal access to APIs. What this is asking for is for Apple to effectively release features later or not at all. Or have some even more draconian App Store rules. I don't want every random app having full hardware access to spy on me as it pleases. There might be a few APIs, where limiting public access is justified. In most cases, we are talking about access to useful and uncritical APIs. The more Apple limits access to these APIs, the more harm they do to the App eco system.

ubermonkey 6y ago
>That's why it should be freely configurable. This seems really, really entitled to me. There already IS a platform you can use that you can fiddle and tweak to your heart's content in Android. Apple's iOS is different, and runs on maybe 1/4 of the phones that Android does. One feature of the Apple ecosystem is this walled garden effect. By what logic do you seek to compel this non-monopoly to make changes to their business model?
- _ph_ 6y ago
  I don't know whether this fallacy has already a name, but it should. Just because I think something could be improved about iOS, doesn't mean I didn't choose the platform I am using with care. Nor do I think that the business model of Apple is in danger, just because I can make a setting in which app to open a certain URL for example. Actually, as I am still a great fan of Apple, I think some of the suggestions have the potential to improve the business model of Apple.

dbspin 6y ago

This is an... odd comment. The article is written by a company who Apple almost put out of business (as they have many others), not by acquihire, or take over but essentially by adopting Microsoft's old 'embrace, extend, extinguish' policy. Copying a feature wholesale they could well afford to purchase should they wish to emulate it. It might be legal, but it's certainly unethical and as the article argues terrible for the apple ecosystem. Moreover, you're individual preferences 'maps and email is pretty much the only one (SIC) I care about', are not the issue at hand. I call this fallacy 'I don't want it, so you can't have it'. If you're happy with Apples increasingly walled garden of apps, great. No one is suggesting you change. Many many other people however would like to avail of the choices offered by other music services, other payment services etc. Often because Apple's offerings are unavailable or severely limited in their regions. Again - if you're happy with the Appple store, great. But, on a serious note, who cares? This article isn't about your preferences, but those of other people. Giving them more freedom doesn't detract from how you choose to use your device one iota. Ditto API's - they exist specifically so that apps don't need to have full hardware access. With apple controlling the underlying hardware API's can and are limited to prevent 'spying'. Not that that's prevented companies like Facebook from doing it anyway. What we're talking about here is leveling the playing field, in other words limiting Apples monopolistic control over their devices to the benefit of consumers.

AnonC 6y ago

>> 1: Enable users to set default app preferences. > Fine, but really Maps and Email is pretty much the only one I care about. This is the best suggestion of the bunch. At a minimum, Apple should provide a way to set defaults for the apps it bundles with iOS where there are some third party alternatives (even if they happen to be more like skins as in the case of browsers) — that would be browser, Mail, Maps, Podcasts, Calculator, Camera, Photos, iMovie, Calendar, News, Books, Documents, Spreadsheets, Presentations and more (why not change the default app that makes and receives “calls”?). It can prioritize among these and open them up in phases, but there is someone in the world for whom the defaults are annoying.

ratww 6y ago
You do have a valid point for some of those apps (Browser, Mail, Maps, Calendar and even "Call"), but for others (Podcasts, Calculator, Camera, Photos, iMovie, News, Books, Documents, Spreadsheets, Presentations) wouldn't just installing a new app suffice? Or are there some privileges that those apps have? (I personally don't think they should) Asking because some of those Apple apps don't even come installed by default (office apps), and most can be deleted from the phone.
- AnonC 6y ago
  GP here. There are a few kinds of launch mechanisms in play here. It should be possible to open things that are based on links or files in a particular app as a default. This is a good model because there’s already a Files app that allows a desktop file storage/manipulation method (same with files received over email or opened from a browser). Then you also have apps that are launched directly (without a file or URL as trigger). Couple of examples: you can swipe left on the lock screen to access the Apple camera app (or press the camera icon on the bottom right). Why shouldn’t this be as seamless to launch a better third party camera app (of which there are many)? As for calculator, the one launched from Control Center is always the Apple Calculator app. It’s not possible to launch another one as easily without adding it into the widgets area in the search screen (which may already be crowded). These two examples don’t require special hardware enablement (like the Apple Pay trigger required), and can improve the lives of many users.