4 ms·

I think that is one of the reasons why in Germany a registered association named "Zwiebelfreunde e.V." (can be translated to "Onion friends") was founded. By t

by z3j4e 6y ago

I think that is one of the reasons why in Germany a registered association named "Zwiebelfreunde e.V." (can be translated to "Onion friends") was founded. By this it is a legal entity and legal trouble can be handled better than if its against a person but the members of the board still gets trouble with the law. Not long ago they were raided because they were treated as witnesses in a case. (Yes, in Germany even as a witness you can be raided ...)

dx034 6y ago
Not just in Germany. US providers can also be forced to hand over data to be used in cases against others. It's just usually not done with a raid since providers will turn over data when asked.
- jand 6y ago
  Just for context: This is relativly new in Germany. In 2017 there was a change which has as consequences - witnesses _have to_ appear in person if requested (by police or DA) - witnesses _have to_ make statements regarding the case at hand This is quite a nice tool if you lack moral. You might request the suspect to appear as a witness and try to leverage the new requirements to make the suspect reveal damaging information. Maybe this was the reason that Germany was mentioned before.
  - codethief 6y ago
    Do you have a source for that and/or an article where they elaborate on the implications of those changes?
  - gruez 6y ago
    >This is quite a nice tool if you lack moral. You might request the suspect to appear as a witness and try to leverage the new requirements to make the suspect reveal damaging information. Germany doesn't have protections against self-incrimination? Or does this rely on the suspect being too cooperative for his own good?
    - Certhas 6y ago
      Germany does have such protection. Parent was probably wildly speculating: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auskunftsverweigerungsrecht https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auskunftsverweigerungsrecht
      - codethief 6y ago
        I think you meant to link to https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aussageverweigerungsrecht https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aussageverweigerungsrecht . Auskunftsverweigerungsrecht, according to the article, is a right of witnesses.
        Certhas 6y ago
        We were talking about the rights of witnesses?
        codethief 6y ago
        I was referring to this question by the grandparent which I read as being about a suspect's (not a witness's) rights: > Germany doesn't have protections against self-incrimination?
guerby 6y ago
In France we have at least one not-for-profit dedicated to operating Tor exit nodes: https://nos-oignons.net/ https://nos-oignons.net/ (french) https://nos-oignons.net/%C3%80_propos/index.en.html https://nos-oignons.net/%C3%80_propos/index.en.html They host their nodes on not-for-profit ISP and friendly commercial ISP: https://nos-oignons.net/Services/index.en.html https://nos-oignons.net/Services/index.en.html (0.57% exit probability) They open or close (never happened yet) nodes based on donations: https://nos-oignons.net/Donnez/index.en.html https://nos-oignons.net/Donnez/index.en.html Disclaimer: I'm a volunteer in one of the not-for-profit ISP hosting a nos-oignons node.

by z3j4e 6y ago

dx034 6y ago

Not just in Germany. US providers can also be forced to hand over data to be used in cases against others. It's just usually not done with a raid since providers will turn over data when asked.

jand 6y ago
Just for context: This is relativly new in Germany. In 2017 there was a change which has as consequences - witnesses _have to_ appear in person if requested (by police or DA) - witnesses _have to_ make statements regarding the case at hand This is quite a nice tool if you lack moral. You might request the suspect to appear as a witness and try to leverage the new requirements to make the suspect reveal damaging information. Maybe this was the reason that Germany was mentioned before.
- codethief 6y ago
  Do you have a source for that and/or an article where they elaborate on the implications of those changes?
- gruez 6y ago
  >This is quite a nice tool if you lack moral. You might request the suspect to appear as a witness and try to leverage the new requirements to make the suspect reveal damaging information. Germany doesn't have protections against self-incrimination? Or does this rely on the suspect being too cooperative for his own good?
  - Certhas 6y ago
    Germany does have such protection. Parent was probably wildly speculating: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auskunftsverweigerungsrecht https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auskunftsverweigerungsrecht
    - codethief 6y ago
      I think you meant to link to https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aussageverweigerungsrecht https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aussageverweigerungsrecht . Auskunftsverweigerungsrecht, according to the article, is a right of witnesses.
      - Certhas 6y ago
        We were talking about the rights of witnesses?
        codethief 6y ago
        I was referring to this question by the grandparent which I read as being about a suspect's (not a witness's) rights: > Germany doesn't have protections against self-incrimination?

guerby 6y ago

In France we have at least one not-for-profit dedicated to operating Tor exit nodes: https://nos-oignons.net/ https://nos-oignons.net/ (french) https://nos-oignons.net/%C3%80_propos/index.en.html https://nos-oignons.net/%C3%80_propos/index.en.html They host their nodes on not-for-profit ISP and friendly commercial ISP: https://nos-oignons.net/Services/index.en.html https://nos-oignons.net/Services/index.en.html (0.57% exit probability) They open or close (never happened yet) nodes based on donations: https://nos-oignons.net/Donnez/index.en.html https://nos-oignons.net/Donnez/index.en.html Disclaimer: I'm a volunteer in one of the not-for-profit ISP hosting a nos-oignons node.