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> This is going to sound contrived, but they have a monopoly over the Apple App Store. It is contrived. Put aside the fact that the Mac's market share is in

> This is going to sound contrived, but they have a monopoly over the Apple App Store. It is contrived. Put aside the fact that the Mac's market share is in the teens. You're saying that Apple has a monopoly over a market for products they created which are designed to run on a product they created. So: Nintendo has complete control over distribution of games through their console; indeed much more total than Apple. Do they have a monopoly? How about Sony over the Playstation? > You might argue that this isn't the definition of a monopoly, but the DOJ gets to decide that, not you. I'm going to argue that this isn't the definition of a monopoly. Monopolies are over markets. The Apple App Store isn't a market. More importantly, having a monopoly isn't illegal. Abusing that monopoly to eliminate competitors or to broaden the monopoly into other markets is illegal. I intensely dislike what Apple is doing here. But I'm not sure we have much legal recourse.

summerlight 6y ago
> So: Nintendo has complete control over distribution of games through their console; indeed much more total than Apple. Do they have a monopoly? How about Sony over the Playstation? Nintendo and Sony have been actively subsidizing third party developers to attract them into their platform rather than threatening them to pull off from the market. This is possible since game publishers have much more negotiation power than App developers against the platform owner. The point is, being monopoly itself is not illegal. Abusing monopolistic market power is.
- SeanLuke 6y ago
  > Abusing monopolistic market power is. Apple doesn't have a monopoly over its "market" any more than Nintendo has a monopoly over its. Because a marketplace is not a market. Regardless, you need to be specific as to what "abusing" means. The FTC is pretty exacting about what unfair competition is via monopoly. What exactly is Apple doing with its (non-)monopoly that is illegal?
  - echelon 6y ago
    Apple and Google taken together comprise most of the computing the average human will do or come into direct contact with. It's also broad, generic computing: banking, email, phone, messaging, dating, job seeking, entertainment. If that isn't an entire market, then I don't know what is. You can't compare the Nintendo Switch or PS4 to that. Not only is there an order of magnitude more competition, but it doesn't match in scale or scope. Apple gets to tax you when you want to find a partner. When you want to watch a movie. When you want to do your taxes. It's not fair. It's suffocating.
  - summerlight 6y ago
    > Because a marketplace is not a market. https://stratechery.com/2018/apple-app-store-follow-up-aws-arm-servers-intels-impending-choice/ https://stratechery.com/2018/apple-app-store-follow-up-aws-a... Ben already has addressed this kind of defense. > What exactly is Apple doing with its (non-)monopoly that is illegal? See the following article. And note that this is just the tip of the iceberg. You might heard about Spotify v. Apple and the recent Hey situation. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/09/technology/apple-app-store-competition.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/09/technology/ap... Not sure if you believe that Apple is on a safe ground for antitrust issues but Apple doesn't seem to share your optimism. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/09/apple-says-it-changed-app-store-search-following-antitrust-concerns.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/09/apple-says-it-changed-app-st...

summerlight 6y ago

> So: Nintendo has complete control over distribution of games through their console; indeed much more total than Apple. Do they have a monopoly? How about Sony over the Playstation? Nintendo and Sony have been actively subsidizing third party developers to attract them into their platform rather than threatening them to pull off from the market. This is possible since game publishers have much more negotiation power than App developers against the platform owner. The point is, being monopoly itself is not illegal. Abusing monopolistic market power is.

SeanLuke 6y ago
> Abusing monopolistic market power is. Apple doesn't have a monopoly over its "market" any more than Nintendo has a monopoly over its. Because a marketplace is not a market. Regardless, you need to be specific as to what "abusing" means. The FTC is pretty exacting about what unfair competition is via monopoly. What exactly is Apple doing with its (non-)monopoly that is illegal?
- echelon 6y ago
  Apple and Google taken together comprise most of the computing the average human will do or come into direct contact with. It's also broad, generic computing: banking, email, phone, messaging, dating, job seeking, entertainment. If that isn't an entire market, then I don't know what is. You can't compare the Nintendo Switch or PS4 to that. Not only is there an order of magnitude more competition, but it doesn't match in scale or scope. Apple gets to tax you when you want to find a partner. When you want to watch a movie. When you want to do your taxes. It's not fair. It's suffocating.
- summerlight 6y ago
  > Because a marketplace is not a market. https://stratechery.com/2018/apple-app-store-follow-up-aws-arm-servers-intels-impending-choice/ https://stratechery.com/2018/apple-app-store-follow-up-aws-a... Ben already has addressed this kind of defense. > What exactly is Apple doing with its (non-)monopoly that is illegal? See the following article. And note that this is just the tip of the iceberg. You might heard about Spotify v. Apple and the recent Hey situation. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/09/technology/apple-app-store-competition.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/09/technology/ap... Not sure if you believe that Apple is on a safe ground for antitrust issues but Apple doesn't seem to share your optimism. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/09/apple-says-it-changed-app-store-search-following-antitrust-concerns.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/09/apple-says-it-changed-app-st...