19 ms·

The fact the problem is getting worse is cause for concern not dismissal of the argument Do you find this trend acceptable and desirable

by syshum 6y ago

threeseed 6y ago
I would love to be able to build and install any apps I want on my Playstation. But then I remember that I live in the real world where piracy exists and companies aren't charities.
- henriquez 6y ago
  Okay but this is missing the point. The issue with the Hey app is that Apple is inconsistently applying their rules, allowing big players like Netflix and Spotify to not use Apple subscriptions, but trying to force a smaller developer to give up a third of their revenue for following the exact same model. This seems like an unfair and deceptive business practice on Apple’s part and good fodder for a lawsuit.
- liability 6y ago
  I don't think a charity would be selling a thousand dollar phone, so you're right, Apple is not a charity.
lostgame 6y ago
But Apple did not start this trend. On consoles for decades I could only install approved software. That never made the consoles any less useful. In fact, it gave a guarantee of quality - even literally in the form of the ‘Nintendo Seal of Quality’, that determined what I was buying at the very least wouldn’t mess up my console. Similarly, unlike the Play Store; I can feel confident downloading virtually anything from the App Store. Sure, there has been some crap ware, and apps basically designed to exploit money from you via IAP, but I have never hit or seen actual malware like I have on Android. So, I find this desirable, yes. I am lucky enough to have a developer license for iOS and can literally install whatever I want. I use the Provenance emulator to emulate Sega games virtually every day. I could never get that from the App Store. Yes, I had to pay a $99USD privilege for that. I’m okay with that. It costs wayyyy more to get a license and devkit to develop on a console. I would never want my actual primary mobile phone to ever be vulnerable to malware I could easily download, I will more than happily pay for the privilege, and I am statistically not alone when I see it as a feature, not a bug.
- syshum 6y ago
  >>That never made the consoles any less useful. It did to me and many others, which is why I do not own any consoles and only Play PC games >>Similarly, unlike the Play Store; I can feel confident downloading virtually anything from the App Store. Good for you, that is not the argument. I have no problems with them running a curated store, I have no problems with them shipping the device with only that store. I do have a problem with them prohibiting any and all competing stores, or prohibiting people that bought the device from doing what they want to it See you can have your nice little safe space and never escapes from the Safety of Apples Guided Cage, just do not force that on the rest of us. Apple's polices should be (and hopefully soon the courts will agree they are) anti-trust violation
  - sundaeofshock 6y ago
    It’s not forced on you. You can buy an android device if you want the freedom to install any software at all, no questions asked. Just like no one forced you to buy a console for gaming, no one is forcing you to buy an iPhone for mobile computing.
    - syshum 6y ago
      and you once again missed the point. We limit things a business can do to a consumer in a number of ways, in the US the best examples of that come from the Automotive world where Manufacturers are required by law to allow open access to diagnostic data (ODBII) and required by law still honor warranties even if the device (the car) was serviced by a third party I am absolutely a supporter of extending this consumer protections types of laws to the consumer electronics world (some already apply as many parts of the warrany law apply to all products not just cars) I find it extremely ironic that many people here advocate for government intervention in all manner of things but never when it comes to Apples Anti-consumer practices... no no no.. dont touch apple //for the record I have never and will never own an apple product, I am consumer advocate.
ianai 6y ago
We’re at a minimum for individual rights and liberties at the gain of corporate interests.
- mcherm 6y ago
  We may be at the lowest levels seen in recent times, but I'm fairly confident it is not a minimum because it can go still lower.
- toasterlovin 6y ago
  But Apple enforcing this rule also creates a better experience for their customers (they can sign up without having to leave the app). This really an argument between two companies about who gets paid for originating the sale.
  - zakki 6y ago
    Is it? What if 30% is given to customers instead of Apple when they subscribe the app outside of AppStore?
  - syshum 6y ago
    Then the apps should be able to add a line item called "convenience fee" that si equal to the amount apple is charging them. The reality is though apple wants to hide their extortion of their customers, if every in-app purchase had a 30% apple tax applied to it the customers would be very upset with apple

The fact the problem is getting worse is cause for concern not dismissal of the argument Do you find this trend acceptable and desirable

by syshum 6y ago

The fact the problem is getting worse is cause for concern not dismissal of the argument Do you find this trend acceptable and desirable

threeseed 6y ago

I would love to be able to build and install any apps I want on my Playstation. But then I remember that I live in the real world where piracy exists and companies aren't charities.

henriquez 6y ago
Okay but this is missing the point. The issue with the Hey app is that Apple is inconsistently applying their rules, allowing big players like Netflix and Spotify to not use Apple subscriptions, but trying to force a smaller developer to give up a third of their revenue for following the exact same model. This seems like an unfair and deceptive business practice on Apple’s part and good fodder for a lawsuit.
liability 6y ago
I don't think a charity would be selling a thousand dollar phone, so you're right, Apple is not a charity.

lostgame 6y ago

But Apple did not start this trend. On consoles for decades I could only install approved software. That never made the consoles any less useful. In fact, it gave a guarantee of quality - even literally in the form of the ‘Nintendo Seal of Quality’, that determined what I was buying at the very least wouldn’t mess up my console. Similarly, unlike the Play Store; I can feel confident downloading virtually anything from the App Store. Sure, there has been some crap ware, and apps basically designed to exploit money from you via IAP, but I have never hit or seen actual malware like I have on Android. So, I find this desirable, yes. I am lucky enough to have a developer license for iOS and can literally install whatever I want. I use the Provenance emulator to emulate Sega games virtually every day. I could never get that from the App Store. Yes, I had to pay a $99USD privilege for that. I’m okay with that. It costs wayyyy more to get a license and devkit to develop on a console. I would never want my actual primary mobile phone to ever be vulnerable to malware I could easily download, I will more than happily pay for the privilege, and I am statistically not alone when I see it as a feature, not a bug.

syshum 6y ago
>>That never made the consoles any less useful. It did to me and many others, which is why I do not own any consoles and only Play PC games >>Similarly, unlike the Play Store; I can feel confident downloading virtually anything from the App Store. Good for you, that is not the argument. I have no problems with them running a curated store, I have no problems with them shipping the device with only that store. I do have a problem with them prohibiting any and all competing stores, or prohibiting people that bought the device from doing what they want to it See you can have your nice little safe space and never escapes from the Safety of Apples Guided Cage, just do not force that on the rest of us. Apple's polices should be (and hopefully soon the courts will agree they are) anti-trust violation
- sundaeofshock 6y ago
  It’s not forced on you. You can buy an android device if you want the freedom to install any software at all, no questions asked. Just like no one forced you to buy a console for gaming, no one is forcing you to buy an iPhone for mobile computing.
  - syshum 6y ago
    and you once again missed the point. We limit things a business can do to a consumer in a number of ways, in the US the best examples of that come from the Automotive world where Manufacturers are required by law to allow open access to diagnostic data (ODBII) and required by law still honor warranties even if the device (the car) was serviced by a third party I am absolutely a supporter of extending this consumer protections types of laws to the consumer electronics world (some already apply as many parts of the warrany law apply to all products not just cars) I find it extremely ironic that many people here advocate for government intervention in all manner of things but never when it comes to Apples Anti-consumer practices... no no no.. dont touch apple //for the record I have never and will never own an apple product, I am consumer advocate.

ianai 6y ago

We’re at a minimum for individual rights and liberties at the gain of corporate interests.

mcherm 6y ago
We may be at the lowest levels seen in recent times, but I'm fairly confident it is not a minimum because it can go still lower.
toasterlovin 6y ago
But Apple enforcing this rule also creates a better experience for their customers (they can sign up without having to leave the app). This really an argument between two companies about who gets paid for originating the sale.
- zakki 6y ago
  Is it? What if 30% is given to customers instead of Apple when they subscribe the app outside of AppStore?
- syshum 6y ago
  Then the apps should be able to add a line item called "convenience fee" that si equal to the amount apple is charging them. The reality is though apple wants to hide their extortion of their customers, if every in-app purchase had a 30% apple tax applied to it the customers would be very upset with apple