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The data doesn't seem to back up your claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_

The data doesn't seem to back up your claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_...

sidlls 6y ago
Deadly force isn't the only way police commit violence against impoverished Americans, or against Americans who aren't white (regardless of economic class). You don't have to be murdered by the police for your life to be effectively ended when they make up BS about assaulting an officer, resisting arrest, etc.
- briandear 6y ago
  How often is resisting arrest made up? Just curious about the actual data on that.
- chrisjs96 6y ago
  Completely agree. Although the data doesn't show african american's are killed at a higher rate(in fact it shows the opposite) it does show that they are discriminated against at a higher rate. Pulled over more, etc.
  - thebean11 6y ago
    If I understood the data correctly, African Americans are pulled over more, then after being pulled over they are killed at the same rate as other groups. That still implies they are killed at a higher rate. The population we're concerned about isn't "people who have already been pulled over".
  - danShumway 6y ago
    > Although the data doesn't show african american's are killed at a higher rate Wait, what? Take a second look at the first 3 paragraphs, and then the "Racial Patterns" section of that Wikipedia article you linked. When people say that police killings aren't racially motivated, they are disputing the causes of the disparity in race-based deaths, not the disparity itself. I mean, you can just do the math from recorded police shootings yourself, and you pretty consistently across multiple years get death-per-million numbers for black communities that are around 1.5-2.5x as large as for white communities. Black men are pretty objectively killed at higher rates than white men, the studies you're talking about are questioning why that is and whether officer bias and/or systemic racism plays a role in those numbers.
    - chrisjs96 6y ago
      Did you read the `Racial patterns` section and look at the data from the FBI?
      - danShumway 6y ago
        Yes. You're going to have to direct me to a quote, I don't know what you're referring to. What I see is: 2015: > A 2015 study found that unarmed blacks were 3.49 times more likely to be shot by police than were unarmed whites. [...] Another 2015 study concluded that black people were 2.8 times more likely to be killed by police than whites. 2016: > According to The Guardian's database, in 2016 the rate of fatal police shootings per million was 10.13 for Native Americans, 6.6 for black people, 3.23 for Hispanics; 2.9 for white people and 1.17 for Asians. [...] Another study published in 2016 concluded that the mortality rate of legal interventions among black and Hispanic people was 2.8 and 1.7 times higher than that among white people. 2018: > A 2018 study found that minorities are disproportionately killed by police but that white officers are not more likely to use lethal force on blacks than minority officers. 2019: > A 2019 study in the Journal of Politics found that police officers were more likely to use lethal force on blacks, but that this was "most likely driven by higher rates of police contact among African Americans rather than racial differences in the circumstances of the interaction and officer bias in the application of lethal force." A 2019 study in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) found that blacks and American Indian/Alaska Natives are more likely to be killed by police than whites and that Latino men are more likely to be killed than white men. ---- I see exactly one study in this section that disputes the disparity itself, and that study was widely criticized and ended up issuing a correction: > A 2019 study in PNAS concluded from a dataset of fatal shootings that white officers were not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-white officers [...] The study was widely criticized by other academics, who stated that the study's conclusion could not be supported by the data. [...] PNAS issued a correction to the original article. I don't see data from the FBI mentioned in the racial disparity section. Maybe I'm missing what you're referring to. Again though, you don't need to do a complicated study to find the disparity itself. You can literally just add up the number of deaths for each race and then divide by population numbers in the US for black/white communities. You'll get higher per-million numbers for black communities than for white ones. I'm not sure how someone could dispute that, unless you're arguing that the Guardian is under-reporting white deaths or something[0]. If you want to debate the causes behind that disparity, then that's a separate conversation. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
smnrchrds 6y ago
I mean, wearing a body cam all the time is an overkill. That being said, your link does not prove that. The number of people killed by the police is just the tip of the iceberg. There would be an order of magnitude more people being seriously harmed (paralyzed, blinded, etc.) by the police than killed. There would be an order of magnitude more people mildly harmed (bruises, cuts, chipped tooth, etc.) than than seriously harmed. By the time you get to incidents like police's violent arrest of SNL's Jay Pharoah [0], complete with knee on the neck (fortunately not long enough to kill him), you have potentially hundreds of thousands of people being affected and treated like this every year. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV5KpbUPeSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV5KpbUPeSU
- chrisjs96 6y ago
  Police killings are a lot like fear of letting kids walk to school, fear of planes, fear of skydiving. I think there is a term for it but I'll just say it's common misconceptions that have been painted wrongly by news and word of mouth. Murder rates have gone down since 70's and at their lowest point, but with the introduction of national and world news it makes people think murders have gone up, so they don't let their kids walk to school. Some people have an irrational fear of flying because of news. People have fear of skydiving because they watch too many movies and think a parachute will fail, when the data shows the exact opposite. 99% of are deaths not related to parachute failing. So I see the police killings as a world that has gotten smaller, video camera's in everyones pocket and social media that has painted a picture of world that doesn't exist. It strikes fear into people and the psychological issues will be felt for decades.
  - augustt 6y ago
    Except deaths resulting from your examples are generally not state-sponsored and then covered up by the very same people that are supposed to protect us.
    - B4CKlash 6y ago
      Except there's a huge difference between malfeasance and state-sponsored racism. The former can look like the latter if you ignore statistics and you focus only on emotion.
testbot123 6y ago
The Wikipedia link you're citing does not have data that refutes OPs claim. It mentions several studies that seem to refute it, but in the next sentence(s), shows further studies which refute those.
xsmasher 6y ago
Which data? I see > Police killings are one of the leading causes of death for young men in the United States.[5] A study by Esposito, Lee, Edwards predicts that 1 in 2,000 men and 1 in 33,000 women die as a result of police use of deadly force.[5] The same study predicts the risk is highest for black men, as approximately 1 in 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police.[5]
bananamerica 6y ago
I merely expressed how I’d probably react in that context. That’s a personal statement. There’s more to reality than numbers.

The data doesn't seem to back up your claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_...

sidlls 6y ago

Deadly force isn't the only way police commit violence against impoverished Americans, or against Americans who aren't white (regardless of economic class). You don't have to be murdered by the police for your life to be effectively ended when they make up BS about assaulting an officer, resisting arrest, etc.

briandear 6y ago
How often is resisting arrest made up? Just curious about the actual data on that.
chrisjs96 6y ago
Completely agree. Although the data doesn't show african american's are killed at a higher rate(in fact it shows the opposite) it does show that they are discriminated against at a higher rate. Pulled over more, etc.
- thebean11 6y ago
  If I understood the data correctly, African Americans are pulled over more, then after being pulled over they are killed at the same rate as other groups. That still implies they are killed at a higher rate. The population we're concerned about isn't "people who have already been pulled over".
- danShumway 6y ago
  > Although the data doesn't show african american's are killed at a higher rate Wait, what? Take a second look at the first 3 paragraphs, and then the "Racial Patterns" section of that Wikipedia article you linked. When people say that police killings aren't racially motivated, they are disputing the causes of the disparity in race-based deaths, not the disparity itself. I mean, you can just do the math from recorded police shootings yourself, and you pretty consistently across multiple years get death-per-million numbers for black communities that are around 1.5-2.5x as large as for white communities. Black men are pretty objectively killed at higher rates than white men, the studies you're talking about are questioning why that is and whether officer bias and/or systemic racism plays a role in those numbers.
  - chrisjs96 6y ago
    Did you read the `Racial patterns` section and look at the data from the FBI?
    - danShumway 6y ago
      Yes. You're going to have to direct me to a quote, I don't know what you're referring to. What I see is: 2015: > A 2015 study found that unarmed blacks were 3.49 times more likely to be shot by police than were unarmed whites. [...] Another 2015 study concluded that black people were 2.8 times more likely to be killed by police than whites. 2016: > According to The Guardian's database, in 2016 the rate of fatal police shootings per million was 10.13 for Native Americans, 6.6 for black people, 3.23 for Hispanics; 2.9 for white people and 1.17 for Asians. [...] Another study published in 2016 concluded that the mortality rate of legal interventions among black and Hispanic people was 2.8 and 1.7 times higher than that among white people. 2018: > A 2018 study found that minorities are disproportionately killed by police but that white officers are not more likely to use lethal force on blacks than minority officers. 2019: > A 2019 study in the Journal of Politics found that police officers were more likely to use lethal force on blacks, but that this was "most likely driven by higher rates of police contact among African Americans rather than racial differences in the circumstances of the interaction and officer bias in the application of lethal force." A 2019 study in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) found that blacks and American Indian/Alaska Natives are more likely to be killed by police than whites and that Latino men are more likely to be killed than white men. ---- I see exactly one study in this section that disputes the disparity itself, and that study was widely criticized and ended up issuing a correction: > A 2019 study in PNAS concluded from a dataset of fatal shootings that white officers were not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-white officers [...] The study was widely criticized by other academics, who stated that the study's conclusion could not be supported by the data. [...] PNAS issued a correction to the original article. I don't see data from the FBI mentioned in the racial disparity section. Maybe I'm missing what you're referring to. Again though, you don't need to do a complicated study to find the disparity itself. You can literally just add up the number of deaths for each race and then divide by population numbers in the US for black/white communities. You'll get higher per-million numbers for black communities than for white ones. I'm not sure how someone could dispute that, unless you're arguing that the Guardian is under-reporting white deaths or something[0]. If you want to debate the causes behind that disparity, then that's a separate conversation. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

smnrchrds 6y ago

I mean, wearing a body cam all the time is an overkill. That being said, your link does not prove that. The number of people killed by the police is just the tip of the iceberg. There would be an order of magnitude more people being seriously harmed (paralyzed, blinded, etc.) by the police than killed. There would be an order of magnitude more people mildly harmed (bruises, cuts, chipped tooth, etc.) than than seriously harmed. By the time you get to incidents like police's violent arrest of SNL's Jay Pharoah [0], complete with knee on the neck (fortunately not long enough to kill him), you have potentially hundreds of thousands of people being affected and treated like this every year. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV5KpbUPeSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV5KpbUPeSU

chrisjs96 6y ago
Police killings are a lot like fear of letting kids walk to school, fear of planes, fear of skydiving. I think there is a term for it but I'll just say it's common misconceptions that have been painted wrongly by news and word of mouth. Murder rates have gone down since 70's and at their lowest point, but with the introduction of national and world news it makes people think murders have gone up, so they don't let their kids walk to school. Some people have an irrational fear of flying because of news. People have fear of skydiving because they watch too many movies and think a parachute will fail, when the data shows the exact opposite. 99% of are deaths not related to parachute failing. So I see the police killings as a world that has gotten smaller, video camera's in everyones pocket and social media that has painted a picture of world that doesn't exist. It strikes fear into people and the psychological issues will be felt for decades.
- augustt 6y ago
  Except deaths resulting from your examples are generally not state-sponsored and then covered up by the very same people that are supposed to protect us.
  - B4CKlash 6y ago
    Except there's a huge difference between malfeasance and state-sponsored racism. The former can look like the latter if you ignore statistics and you focus only on emotion.

testbot123 6y ago

The Wikipedia link you're citing does not have data that refutes OPs claim. It mentions several studies that seem to refute it, but in the next sentence(s), shows further studies which refute those.

xsmasher 6y ago

Which data? I see > Police killings are one of the leading causes of death for young men in the United States.[5] A study by Esposito, Lee, Edwards predicts that 1 in 2,000 men and 1 in 33,000 women die as a result of police use of deadly force.[5] The same study predicts the risk is highest for black men, as approximately 1 in 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police.[5]

bananamerica 6y ago

I merely expressed how I’d probably react in that context. That’s a personal statement. There’s more to reality than numbers.