3 ms·

bad according to your cultural background?

by hbogert 6y ago

totony 6y ago
The hivemind strongly believes moral relativism isn't a thing and western culture is the only valid one.
- cthalupa 6y ago
  This is nice and snarky, but I don't think it's morally relativistic to say that actions that subjugate and control people based on race or sex are acceptable just because it's their "culture" Human rights should be universal and not something that should be limited just because you were born a certain way in a certain place.
  - totony 6y ago
    >Human rights should be universal and not something that should be limited just because you were born a certain way in a certain place. Why is it that you think so? Why is it that your definition of human right, which seem to include being able to occupy that board of directors, should apply to anyone else?
    - cthalupa 6y ago
      I wasn't speaking specifically of being on the board of directors - my point was that plenty of things happen because of "culture" that are simply unacceptable - like FGM. You cannot allow something to keep happening just because that's how it's been done, and yes, I would argue that not being mutilated is a basic human right. Thankfully Japan doesn't practice FGM, but being on the scale of "Bad shit" at "Discriminating against women" instead of "Horrifically mutilating them" doesn't earn them congratulations and a pat on the back. It was American culture to not let women vote, to keep them as stay at home parents, to load them up with children constantly to build our families. That doesn't mean that that treatment was right. But, as for the board of directors, women have been working full time in professional roles in Japan for decades now. Japan, to this day, still has famously sexist workplace culture. More than half of all adult women in Japan are employed, yet even those with college degrees have a hard time finding full time employment, compared to men with the same degrees from the same schools. Women are not treated equally in the workplace in Japan. 2nd highest gender pay gap in the OECD, behind only Korea. "Be sexist towards women" isn't something you get a pass on just because it's your culture. This isn't moral relativism. Human beings are human beings, and shouldn't be discriminated against because of their gender, skin color, etc. Unless you want to argue that women are biologically less suited for being members of a companies board? This requirement tells Japanese companies they need to do one of three things, if they want foreign investment: They need to either find qualified women within their company and promote them and bring them onto the board as they should have been doing all along, find qualified candidates from outside, or begin actually hiring and developing women in their company if they have not been doing so.
      - totony 6y ago
        You haven't answered why. You simply stated it's unacceptable and america chose to go a different path. They have no obligation to share your view on any of these things. Stating "sexism is bad" is indeed not moral relativism, it's idealism. Saying that because america did things a certain way, Japan should follow is moral imperialism. Even if your argument were based on some objective metric (and not an ideal) they still wouldn't have any reason to care. That's what I mean by moral relativism. Forcing your views of social dynamics on them is direspectful to their views and autonomy as a society.
cthalupa 6y ago
Some cultures still practice FGM. (And no, not tied to religion - many of them are primarily Christian) Nothing you can say is ever going to convince me that FGM is OK or anything except horrific.

bad according to your cultural background?

totony 6y ago

The hivemind strongly believes moral relativism isn't a thing and western culture is the only valid one.

cthalupa 6y ago
This is nice and snarky, but I don't think it's morally relativistic to say that actions that subjugate and control people based on race or sex are acceptable just because it's their "culture" Human rights should be universal and not something that should be limited just because you were born a certain way in a certain place.
- totony 6y ago
  >Human rights should be universal and not something that should be limited just because you were born a certain way in a certain place. Why is it that you think so? Why is it that your definition of human right, which seem to include being able to occupy that board of directors, should apply to anyone else?
  - cthalupa 6y ago
    I wasn't speaking specifically of being on the board of directors - my point was that plenty of things happen because of "culture" that are simply unacceptable - like FGM. You cannot allow something to keep happening just because that's how it's been done, and yes, I would argue that not being mutilated is a basic human right. Thankfully Japan doesn't practice FGM, but being on the scale of "Bad shit" at "Discriminating against women" instead of "Horrifically mutilating them" doesn't earn them congratulations and a pat on the back. It was American culture to not let women vote, to keep them as stay at home parents, to load them up with children constantly to build our families. That doesn't mean that that treatment was right. But, as for the board of directors, women have been working full time in professional roles in Japan for decades now. Japan, to this day, still has famously sexist workplace culture. More than half of all adult women in Japan are employed, yet even those with college degrees have a hard time finding full time employment, compared to men with the same degrees from the same schools. Women are not treated equally in the workplace in Japan. 2nd highest gender pay gap in the OECD, behind only Korea. "Be sexist towards women" isn't something you get a pass on just because it's your culture. This isn't moral relativism. Human beings are human beings, and shouldn't be discriminated against because of their gender, skin color, etc. Unless you want to argue that women are biologically less suited for being members of a companies board? This requirement tells Japanese companies they need to do one of three things, if they want foreign investment: They need to either find qualified women within their company and promote them and bring them onto the board as they should have been doing all along, find qualified candidates from outside, or begin actually hiring and developing women in their company if they have not been doing so.
    - totony 6y ago
      You haven't answered why. You simply stated it's unacceptable and america chose to go a different path. They have no obligation to share your view on any of these things. Stating "sexism is bad" is indeed not moral relativism, it's idealism. Saying that because america did things a certain way, Japan should follow is moral imperialism. Even if your argument were based on some objective metric (and not an ideal) they still wouldn't have any reason to care. That's what I mean by moral relativism. Forcing your views of social dynamics on them is direspectful to their views and autonomy as a society.

cthalupa 6y ago

Some cultures still practice FGM. (And no, not tied to religion - many of them are primarily Christian) Nothing you can say is ever going to convince me that FGM is OK or anything except horrific.