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So, my point is, there is a big difference between intent and subconscious thought process. The latter can be fixed with apologies and education as you alluded.
by badrabbit 6y ago
So, my point is, there is a big difference between intent and subconscious thought process. The latter can be fixed with apologies and education as you alluded. but the former can't and unless you believe someone intended the offense, you should not be offended. And the obvious answer to why I didn't apologize and why in the article they didn't apologize is because it makes them uncomfortable but more importantly,unless you intentionally practiced it, it is difficult to apologize without accepting weakness. Rule #1 of negotiation is never negotiate from a position if weakness. As the original comment suggests, this is indeed fragility, you feep weak for being wrong and you would feel a lot weaker if you said it out loud. The remedy in my opinion is to promote and have a culture where since childhood everyone is encouraged to see accepting social mishaps like this and apologizing as a strength.
It's not easy to say "sorry i was racist to you" and then briefly go on to talk about how you think their offer is bad and proposr something less (is it your racism again? ). It's a two way street is what I am saying, most people would see an apology as a weakness they can exploit.
- totetsu 6y agoSome people take the view that racism can't be defined as only coming from an individuals with intent. This is because the outcome of the actions are what hurts people, regardless of intent. So someone being hurt as a result of something subconscious, or a stereotype, are still experiencing racism. From this view racism has a systematic or societal definition. Where the society plays a part in transmitting and perpetuating stereotypes, and building the subconscious.
- commoner 6y agoIf you would prefer to withhold a deserved apology to avoid being perceived as "weak", that's your prerogative. However, making a sexual stereotype and then refusing to acknowledge it is a means of perpetuating sexism. It's true that systemic change is needed to eliminate sexism and racism, but society does not change all at once: every action (including every apology) contributes to the solution.
- OzzyB 6y agoOP isn't weak he's simply pointing out that a simple "opps sorry" isn't enough for radicals like you.
- commoner 6y agobadrabbit specifically used the word "weak": > Rule #1 of negotiation is never negotiate from a position if weakness. As the original comment suggests, this is indeed fragility, you feep weak for being wrong and you would feel a lot weaker if you said it out loud. In my comment, I said that an apology would have been the proper resolution: > In this type of situation, the empathetic resolution would be to apologize for causing the victim's embarrassment, which most likely exceeds your own. And frankly, since you have called me a "radical" and a "commie" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23544865 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23544865) because I had made two comments stating that an apology would be the correct approach in the situation, your perception of the Overton window needs some serious adjustment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
- OzzyB 6y agoThe fact that you think you can cite the Overton window as your defense because you somehow think the window has moved far enough that being called a "commie radical" is out of bounds, kinda proves my point. It's not the Overton, it's you.