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This article is all written on the decision from Wells Fargo to stop offering zelle to accounts with a Venezuelan mailing adress. The decision from wells fargo

This article is all written on the decision from Wells Fargo to stop offering zelle to accounts with a Venezuelan mailing adress. The decision from wells fargo seems reasonable, most of the Venezuelans (including me) were using zelle for commercial exchanges or forex exchange, and that is clearly agains the TOS for general uses. I personally know business owners getting more than 20k daily in their personal zelle accounts, it was obvious that a shutdown was coming to it. As you might understand, there is almost 500k legal venezuelans in the US [1] and another 400k [2] illegals, that’s almost 1million Venezuelans in the US, our country population right now is about 23millions (more than 5 millions have flee the country), so, pretty much everyone have family or friends in the US with zelle accounts and that is why zelle is so widely use it in here, but it starts a problem for US banks when people with business that are not related at all to US start using zelle (us based) to collect payments (of venezuelan business), this payments are all done in personal accounts and never declare taxes or anything, so… that’s a huge problem for banks For all of you wondering if people in Venezuela uses bitcoin, NO WE DON’T USE BITCOIN AT ALL, there are only 2 uses for bitcoin in Venezuela, 1st use is as a currency exchange medium (USD to VES), hugely backed by drugs money + laundering… 2nd is to write nice articles about how bitcoin is changing venezuela for international media to consume [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_Americans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_Americans [2] https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/venezuelan-immigrants-united-states https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/venezuelan-immigrant...

joshuamorton 6y ago
Your second source makes no mention of illegal or undocumented immigration. It seems to be saying essentially the same as source 1, that there are around half a million Venezuelan americans.
tonywastaken 6y ago
> This article is all written on the decision from Wells Fargo to stop offering zelle to accounts with a Venezuelan mailing adress. Is this really going to make a difference then? Most Venezuelans I know with Wells Fargo accounts are using US mailing addresses even if they don't live in the US. They use a friend's address or use a mailbox service. PS. Que paso mi pana
- firekvz 6y ago
  My biggest bet is that they only wanted to close zelle for venezuelans in venezuela, so under that concept the mailing adreess is the fist thing to look at, next in list should be IP (already avoided by venezuelans using US services) and next would be lack of SSN/ITIN on accounts, but that would hit a lot of venezuelans that are in US. P.S Que hubo menor
- rafaelm 6y ago
  Yeah, I had a friend that got the email from the bank about losing access to Zelle. He had a Venezuelan address in his account. Another friend had a US address and never got the email. PS: Hablenme los mios
Mengkudulangsat 6y ago
I understand the convenience of USD have a lot of momentum behind it, but if Venezuelans haven't been using Bitcoin before, maybe they should now? At least that system isn't actively trying to shut people out.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  BTC isn't very good at being a currency, given high transaction costs, high transaction times, and high price volatility. You may as well start transacting in gold.
  - solotronics 6y ago
    Bitcoin Lightning has solved two of those specific problems for me. I keep a BlueWallet (BTC Lightning network) on my phone and use it for small payments with my friends. When it gets to a larger amount I settle onto the bitcoin main blockchain.
    - dane-pgp 6y ago
      > small payments with my friends. So basically you run a tab? https://whycryptocurrencies.com/look_out_for_snake_oil.html https://whycryptocurrencies.com/look_out_for_snake_oil.html
      - rglullis 6y ago
        It's funny how there is this "relative scale of hipsterism" and "No True Scottsman" applied to crypto currency projects. Yes, layer-2 solutions amount to basically "running a tab". So what? Channel settlements are still happening on chain, and no layer-2 project can create/alter tokens on its own. Equating scammy ICOs with serious projects and dismissing it all with "a valueless and fraudulent solution" is as simplistic and reductionist as saying that "banks and credit card companies only use funny money". For OP's use case, "running a tab" is exactly what is needed. It is easy for them to keep their accounting, it saves them money and operational costs and it avoids third-parties that the group do not trust. It facilitates economic activity. Why do you feel the need of pissing on it?
powerapple 6y ago
That's how bitcoin gain popularity and so many bitcoin farms in China. It has a real use case (different from U.S. for drug/gun/xxx related activities): to be able to transfer money abroad without limits put by the government. coins can be mined in China, and transferred and sold in US.
berryjerry 6y ago
The problem is Zelle should work for commercial accounts as well. For some reason a business is forced to be charged 2.7% when they accept a payment but a normal zelle or other online transaction can be done for free. I think the future of e-payments is going to be free just like what happened with stocks. At some point a bank will figure out how to make enough money just by holding the cash and requiring minimum balances, like most banks already do and not have any fees for receiving payments. Credit cards are a different story as a lot of the fee charged just goes to the "cash back" or other promotional program and they also offer payment protection.

joshuamorton 6y ago

Your second source makes no mention of illegal or undocumented immigration. It seems to be saying essentially the same as source 1, that there are around half a million Venezuelan americans.

tonywastaken 6y ago

> This article is all written on the decision from Wells Fargo to stop offering zelle to accounts with a Venezuelan mailing adress. Is this really going to make a difference then? Most Venezuelans I know with Wells Fargo accounts are using US mailing addresses even if they don't live in the US. They use a friend's address or use a mailbox service. PS. Que paso mi pana

firekvz 6y ago
My biggest bet is that they only wanted to close zelle for venezuelans in venezuela, so under that concept the mailing adreess is the fist thing to look at, next in list should be IP (already avoided by venezuelans using US services) and next would be lack of SSN/ITIN on accounts, but that would hit a lot of venezuelans that are in US. P.S Que hubo menor
rafaelm 6y ago
Yeah, I had a friend that got the email from the bank about losing access to Zelle. He had a Venezuelan address in his account. Another friend had a US address and never got the email. PS: Hablenme los mios

Mengkudulangsat 6y ago

I understand the convenience of USD have a lot of momentum behind it, but if Venezuelans haven't been using Bitcoin before, maybe they should now? At least that system isn't actively trying to shut people out.

bobthepanda 6y ago
BTC isn't very good at being a currency, given high transaction costs, high transaction times, and high price volatility. You may as well start transacting in gold.
- solotronics 6y ago
  Bitcoin Lightning has solved two of those specific problems for me. I keep a BlueWallet (BTC Lightning network) on my phone and use it for small payments with my friends. When it gets to a larger amount I settle onto the bitcoin main blockchain.
  - dane-pgp 6y ago
    > small payments with my friends. So basically you run a tab? https://whycryptocurrencies.com/look_out_for_snake_oil.html https://whycryptocurrencies.com/look_out_for_snake_oil.html
    - rglullis 6y ago
      It's funny how there is this "relative scale of hipsterism" and "No True Scottsman" applied to crypto currency projects. Yes, layer-2 solutions amount to basically "running a tab". So what? Channel settlements are still happening on chain, and no layer-2 project can create/alter tokens on its own. Equating scammy ICOs with serious projects and dismissing it all with "a valueless and fraudulent solution" is as simplistic and reductionist as saying that "banks and credit card companies only use funny money". For OP's use case, "running a tab" is exactly what is needed. It is easy for them to keep their accounting, it saves them money and operational costs and it avoids third-parties that the group do not trust. It facilitates economic activity. Why do you feel the need of pissing on it?

powerapple 6y ago

That's how bitcoin gain popularity and so many bitcoin farms in China. It has a real use case (different from U.S. for drug/gun/xxx related activities): to be able to transfer money abroad without limits put by the government. coins can be mined in China, and transferred and sold in US.

berryjerry 6y ago

The problem is Zelle should work for commercial accounts as well. For some reason a business is forced to be charged 2.7% when they accept a payment but a normal zelle or other online transaction can be done for free. I think the future of e-payments is going to be free just like what happened with stocks. At some point a bank will figure out how to make enough money just by holding the cash and requiring minimum balances, like most banks already do and not have any fees for receiving payments. Credit cards are a different story as a lot of the fee charged just goes to the "cash back" or other promotional program and they also offer payment protection.