4 ms·

Which Venezuelans does this refer to? Kind of weird that this is completely missing any kind of quotation, interview, or source.

olivermarks 6y ago
From the article 'Access to U.S. bank accounts is fairly common in Venezuela. Many Venezuelans students have Zelle-linked U.S. bank accounts, which they continue to use when they return home. A large expatriate community in the U.S. provides family and friends back in Venezuela with Zelle access. Ecoanalítica, a macroeconomic analysis company, recently tracked over 15,000 transactions in 10 different Venezuelan cities including Caracas, San Cristóbal and Puerto Ordaz. Around 56% of these transactions were conducted in U.S. dollars. According to Asdrúbal Oliveros, an economist at Ecoanalitica, 12% of all transactions were processed by Zelle. Those are impressive statistics. The fact that Zelle payments are free has no doubt promoted usage' To answer your question: a large percentage of the Venezuelan population.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- coderintherye 6y ago
  15,000 transactions is not "a large percentage of the Venezuelan population". Furthermore, the percentage of the population that went to the U.S. is also not large. The population of Venezuela is 28.8 million [0] The number of ex-pat students abroad is relatively tiny: 8,540 to the U.S. for 2016/2017 school year. [1] [0] https://data.worldbank.org/country/venezuela-rb https://data.worldbank.org/country/venezuela-rb [1]https://wenr.wes.org/2018/11/venezuela-in-crisis-what-does-it-mean-for-northbound-student-mobility https://wenr.wes.org/2018/11/venezuela-in-crisis-what-does-i...
  - olivermarks 6y ago
    impressive research, thanks I was assuming Ecoanalítica analysis of 15k transactions was not the entirety but a sample
  - firekvz 6y ago
    Getting data from google is not gonna help you as there is barely official info, since the gov hides those numbers, we dont have propper census data or emigration data Venezuela population is calculated to be 24 millions at the moment, with more than 5millions who left the country over the past 5 years, those 5millions are OFFICIAL numbers, they don't even account for illegal venezuelans who crossed the borders to colombia or brasil, that are calculated on 2 or even 3 more millions, we can't know. I can count with my hand the VES transactions I've done this month, but transactions in USD, are over 100, I just checked my bofa app and i have to wait "load 25 more" 2 times to cover this month.. Also you forgot to account for the 500k legal +400k ilegal venezuelans in the US. I have no clue why this article is talking about expat students
    - coderintherye 6y ago
      The article is specifically about expat students and notes 15,000 transactions. If you want to talk about other stuff that is not in the article, that's great to share, although everything you shared is anecdotal. I suggest if you want hard numbers on crypto in Venezuela you should check out GiveCrypto which has crypto programs running in country with verifiable data.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- monadic2 6y ago
  Yes I saw that and thought I was missing something because the article is very consistent in using “Venezuelans” rather than “a small minority of Venezuelans in major metro areas”. Granted I should have acknowledged this in my original comment.
earthtolazlo 6y ago
There is a popular theory in cryptocurrency circles that many Venezuelans are turning to Bitcoin as a way to escape inflation of the Bolivar. Evidence supporting this theory seems to be scant, however.
- coderintherye 6y ago
  If you are interested in this, GiveCrypto has been experimenting with direct crypto transfers in Venezuela: https://medium.com/givecrypto https://medium.com/givecrypto Results are mixed, but there is some movement.
- sushid 6y ago
  Yeah escaping inflation with a volatile cryptocurrency seems unintuitive for me. You're probably better off with a stablecoin if anything.
  - gus_massa 6y ago
    [Hi from Argentina!] A volatile cryptocurrency can go up or down. A currency with a 2000% annual inflation can only go down. Here in 1990 we get Pesos that was something like a stablecoin. The Economy Minister said "One Peso, [equal to] one Dollar". Ten year later the President said "The person who deposited dollars [in the bank] will receive dollars". Then ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%932002_Argentine_great_depression#End_of_fixed_exchange_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%932002_Argentine_gr...
    - sushid 6y ago
      I get that but again, it's not like these folks want to speculate with their life savings, right? If that's the case, it seems like a stablecoin would be the right choice rather than BTC.
      - gus_massa 6y ago
        My guess is that they are using that for the working money of the business, that they keep only for a week or a month. (A 2000% annual inflation is almost 5% daily, so if you have to keep the money for two days it is better to convert to something else even if the conversion has a 10% spread.) For long term storage, my guess is that they get some real dollars and keep them under the mattress or buy some real state. [We never had here in Argentina this level of inflation for a so long time, so I have to guess. It is weird, because most of the time I can just say "Been there, done that.", but this is an exception.]

olivermarks 6y ago

From the article 'Access to U.S. bank accounts is fairly common in Venezuela. Many Venezuelans students have Zelle-linked U.S. bank accounts, which they continue to use when they return home. A large expatriate community in the U.S. provides family and friends back in Venezuela with Zelle access. Ecoanalítica, a macroeconomic analysis company, recently tracked over 15,000 transactions in 10 different Venezuelan cities including Caracas, San Cristóbal and Puerto Ordaz. Around 56% of these transactions were conducted in U.S. dollars. According to Asdrúbal Oliveros, an economist at Ecoanalitica, 12% of all transactions were processed by Zelle. Those are impressive statistics. The fact that Zelle payments are free has no doubt promoted usage' To answer your question: a large percentage of the Venezuelan population.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
coderintherye 6y ago
15,000 transactions is not "a large percentage of the Venezuelan population". Furthermore, the percentage of the population that went to the U.S. is also not large. The population of Venezuela is 28.8 million [0] The number of ex-pat students abroad is relatively tiny: 8,540 to the U.S. for 2016/2017 school year. [1] [0] https://data.worldbank.org/country/venezuela-rb https://data.worldbank.org/country/venezuela-rb [1]https://wenr.wes.org/2018/11/venezuela-in-crisis-what-does-it-mean-for-northbound-student-mobility https://wenr.wes.org/2018/11/venezuela-in-crisis-what-does-i...
- olivermarks 6y ago
  impressive research, thanks I was assuming Ecoanalítica analysis of 15k transactions was not the entirety but a sample
- firekvz 6y ago
  Getting data from google is not gonna help you as there is barely official info, since the gov hides those numbers, we dont have propper census data or emigration data Venezuela population is calculated to be 24 millions at the moment, with more than 5millions who left the country over the past 5 years, those 5millions are OFFICIAL numbers, they don't even account for illegal venezuelans who crossed the borders to colombia or brasil, that are calculated on 2 or even 3 more millions, we can't know. I can count with my hand the VES transactions I've done this month, but transactions in USD, are over 100, I just checked my bofa app and i have to wait "load 25 more" 2 times to cover this month.. Also you forgot to account for the 500k legal +400k ilegal venezuelans in the US. I have no clue why this article is talking about expat students
  - coderintherye 6y ago
    The article is specifically about expat students and notes 15,000 transactions. If you want to talk about other stuff that is not in the article, that's great to share, although everything you shared is anecdotal. I suggest if you want hard numbers on crypto in Venezuela you should check out GiveCrypto which has crypto programs running in country with verifiable data.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
monadic2 6y ago
Yes I saw that and thought I was missing something because the article is very consistent in using “Venezuelans” rather than “a small minority of Venezuelans in major metro areas”. Granted I should have acknowledged this in my original comment.

earthtolazlo 6y ago

There is a popular theory in cryptocurrency circles that many Venezuelans are turning to Bitcoin as a way to escape inflation of the Bolivar. Evidence supporting this theory seems to be scant, however.

coderintherye 6y ago
If you are interested in this, GiveCrypto has been experimenting with direct crypto transfers in Venezuela: https://medium.com/givecrypto https://medium.com/givecrypto Results are mixed, but there is some movement.
sushid 6y ago
Yeah escaping inflation with a volatile cryptocurrency seems unintuitive for me. You're probably better off with a stablecoin if anything.
- gus_massa 6y ago
  [Hi from Argentina!] A volatile cryptocurrency can go up or down. A currency with a 2000% annual inflation can only go down. Here in 1990 we get Pesos that was something like a stablecoin. The Economy Minister said "One Peso, [equal to] one Dollar". Ten year later the President said "The person who deposited dollars [in the bank] will receive dollars". Then ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%932002_Argentine_great_depression#End_of_fixed_exchange_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998%E2%80%932002_Argentine_gr...
  - sushid 6y ago
    I get that but again, it's not like these folks want to speculate with their life savings, right? If that's the case, it seems like a stablecoin would be the right choice rather than BTC.
    - gus_massa 6y ago
      My guess is that they are using that for the working money of the business, that they keep only for a week or a month. (A 2000% annual inflation is almost 5% daily, so if you have to keep the money for two days it is better to convert to something else even if the conversion has a 10% spread.) For long term storage, my guess is that they get some real dollars and keep them under the mattress or buy some real state. [We never had here in Argentina this level of inflation for a so long time, so I have to guess. It is weird, because most of the time I can just say "Been there, done that.", but this is an exception.]