6 ms·

It's what the likes of Spotify have had to do. either that or eat the cut themselves but no way around it if you want to be listed.

Despegar 6y ago
Distribution isn't free in any business. Spotify and the like might not be as profitable paying the 30/15%, but that's a Spotify problem not an Apple problem.
- paulgb 6y ago
  This would be a more compelling case if there was a market to set a competitive price for distribution instead of a monopoly. This looks more like rent seeking than a fair cost of distribution. After all, why does it cost any more on Apple's end to distribute Spotify to a paying customer than a non-paying one?
- camel_Snake 6y ago
  Does Apple Music have to pay that same 30% fee though? I don't think so, which makes it kind of an Apple problem.
  - Despegar 6y ago
    Does the Walmart that has a McDonalds within their store need to charge themselves rent because McDonalds has to in order for it to be "fair"?
    - foepys 6y ago
      At a certain market share anti-trust kicks in. The market share does not have to be at 100%, it can even be lower than 50% if your "niche share" in this market is large enough.
    - criddell 6y ago
      Apple Music competes with Spotify with a very similar product. Walmart and McDonald's are for more different.
    - ficklepickle 6y ago
      That assumes that Walmart is the franchisee of the McDonalds located in their store. I cannot find any evidence to support that. I found a WSJ article[0] that indicates that Subway locations inside Walmarts are run by individual franchisees. So it would probably be fair to say that yes, restaurants located inside of Walmart stores probably pay rent. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB118970298406826519 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB118970298406826519
      - Despegar 6y ago
        The specifics of their business arrangements aren't relevant to my analogy.
- yakireev 6y ago
  Apple has a monopoly on distribution on their platform. There is no second competing distributor which "Spotify and likes" could do business with, neither they can do distributing themselves (as desktop software producers have been doing since forever). Given that, these guys are on point when calling Apple's demands "a ransom". It certainly looks like one.
  - hellisothers 6y ago
    They have a monopoly on their platform? It’s their platform they can do whatever they want and if you don’t like it you can take your toys elsewhere. I don’t get how a lot of HN is all about freedom of X but then when you can’t do whatever you want in Apple’s App Store it’s all about “they’re not playing fair”.
    - Hamuko 6y ago
      >It’s their platform they can do whatever they want and if you don’t like it you can take your toys elsewhere. United States v. Microsoft Corp (2001).
      - hellisothers 6y ago
        I think there may be a valid line of reasoning here but I’m not quite feeling it. Seems like MS vs was about stifling competition via market share which isn’t the issue here, the issue here is people not waiting to pay Apple the cost of distribution on their platform.
    - yakireev 6y ago
      iOS is literally the only major consumer OS which does not allow its users to install arbitrary software. I guess Hey would be happy not to use "services" of App Store and offer their users an installer to download or a link to some alternative store instead. But they can't: they have to pay Apple a ransom. > It’s their platform they can do whatever they want Yes, unfortunately. That's good for Apple, but not good for us, so it's in our best interests if this situation changes somehow.
- Reason077 6y ago
  > "Spotify and the like might not be as profitable paying the 30/15%, but that's a Spotify problem not an Apple problem." It's an Apple problem because Apple competes directly with Spotify. Apple's own competitor (Apple Music) can avoid those overheads while offering users the convenience of in-app subscriptions. You could argue that Apple is abusing its market power in one sector to gain dominance in another, which is monopolistic and - in many countries - illegal.
  - CompanionCuuube 6y ago
    One could even argue that they compete directly with Hey because of their iCloud email service.
- Hamuko 6y ago
  What are the real costs of Spotify distribution for Apple?

Despegar 6y ago

Distribution isn't free in any business. Spotify and the like might not be as profitable paying the 30/15%, but that's a Spotify problem not an Apple problem.

paulgb 6y ago
This would be a more compelling case if there was a market to set a competitive price for distribution instead of a monopoly. This looks more like rent seeking than a fair cost of distribution. After all, why does it cost any more on Apple's end to distribute Spotify to a paying customer than a non-paying one?
camel_Snake 6y ago
Does Apple Music have to pay that same 30% fee though? I don't think so, which makes it kind of an Apple problem.
- Despegar 6y ago
  Does the Walmart that has a McDonalds within their store need to charge themselves rent because McDonalds has to in order for it to be "fair"?
  - foepys 6y ago
    At a certain market share anti-trust kicks in. The market share does not have to be at 100%, it can even be lower than 50% if your "niche share" in this market is large enough.
  - criddell 6y ago
    Apple Music competes with Spotify with a very similar product. Walmart and McDonald's are for more different.
  - ficklepickle 6y ago
    That assumes that Walmart is the franchisee of the McDonalds located in their store. I cannot find any evidence to support that. I found a WSJ article[0] that indicates that Subway locations inside Walmarts are run by individual franchisees. So it would probably be fair to say that yes, restaurants located inside of Walmart stores probably pay rent. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB118970298406826519 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB118970298406826519
    - Despegar 6y ago
      The specifics of their business arrangements aren't relevant to my analogy.
yakireev 6y ago
Apple has a monopoly on distribution on their platform. There is no second competing distributor which "Spotify and likes" could do business with, neither they can do distributing themselves (as desktop software producers have been doing since forever). Given that, these guys are on point when calling Apple's demands "a ransom". It certainly looks like one.
- hellisothers 6y ago
  They have a monopoly on their platform? It’s their platform they can do whatever they want and if you don’t like it you can take your toys elsewhere. I don’t get how a lot of HN is all about freedom of X but then when you can’t do whatever you want in Apple’s App Store it’s all about “they’re not playing fair”.
  - Hamuko 6y ago
    >It’s their platform they can do whatever they want and if you don’t like it you can take your toys elsewhere. United States v. Microsoft Corp (2001).
    - hellisothers 6y ago
      I think there may be a valid line of reasoning here but I’m not quite feeling it. Seems like MS vs was about stifling competition via market share which isn’t the issue here, the issue here is people not waiting to pay Apple the cost of distribution on their platform.
  - yakireev 6y ago
    iOS is literally the only major consumer OS which does not allow its users to install arbitrary software. I guess Hey would be happy not to use "services" of App Store and offer their users an installer to download or a link to some alternative store instead. But they can't: they have to pay Apple a ransom. > It’s their platform they can do whatever they want Yes, unfortunately. That's good for Apple, but not good for us, so it's in our best interests if this situation changes somehow.
Reason077 6y ago
> "Spotify and the like might not be as profitable paying the 30/15%, but that's a Spotify problem not an Apple problem." It's an Apple problem because Apple competes directly with Spotify. Apple's own competitor (Apple Music) can avoid those overheads while offering users the convenience of in-app subscriptions. You could argue that Apple is abusing its market power in one sector to gain dominance in another, which is monopolistic and - in many countries - illegal.
- CompanionCuuube 6y ago
  One could even argue that they compete directly with Hey because of their iCloud email service.
Hamuko 6y ago
What are the real costs of Spotify distribution for Apple?