6 ms·

I will just use this oportunity to thank FreeBSD team (from kernel to ports maintainers) for their work on project and give my thanks in advance for anyone who

by stiray 6y ago

I will just use this oportunity to thank FreeBSD team (from kernel to ports maintainers) for their work on project and give my thanks in advance for anyone who joins it. It was magnificent server for last 10+ years and I have never trembled before doing a major upgrade. If you dont hear this enough: please keep on working your great work, maybe you are not the most used OS, but you have all my love <3 <3 <3

waynesonfire 6y ago
it's comments like this that make we want to take the dive. thanks for not only supporting the freebsd team but encouraging potential future users. though with that said, i will say that k8s is taking over the world and bsds are going to be left in the dust for my use-case, non-(appliance, embedded, IoT) applications.
- toast0 6y ago
  We've been hearing FreeBSD is dying since before it's been the year of linux on the desktop. Is FreeBSD ever going to be hip and trendy? Probably not, it's not 1994 anymore. But, I don't need a hip amd trendy OS, I need an OS that provides a stable base for me to work upon and supports enough hardware that I can chose decent parts. As a bonus, I've found it easy enough to muck with the internals when it has benefited me or my employer.
  - akira2501 6y ago
    It's hard to believe it's been so long since "It is now official. Netcraft has confirmed: *BSD is dying" was originally written.
    - toyg 6y ago
      I'm surprised the meme is still understood. Do young geeks even know what Netcraft was...? It reminds me that in my hometown, opening a communal door of a condo from your flat is called "pulling", because people used to pull a cord to do it when electricity "didn't exist". Nobody has had to pull a cord to open a door in probably 80 years, but everyone there still says "I'll pull it".
  - waynesonfire 6y ago
    I'm not questioning whether FreeBSD is hip or trendy. Not sure why you're bringing that up. I'd pick up FreeBSD in a heartbeat if I knew that the investment in learning the platform would help me be productive in production. But like you said, it's not 1994 anymore and modern deployment and maintenance of an application stack is docker and k8s. A trend where the OS is abstracted away as much as possible. So why invest in FreeBSD? Okay, so maybe it's a nice OS for appliances; though so is Linux and I can continue to leverage my knowledge. At home I run an appliance and thought I'd deploy FreeBSD on it to run my storage server. I was really excited to deploy ZFS, the BSD killer app. The justification for this getting more difficult to make since ZFS on Linux is production ready. I want to use FreeBSD. I don't care that it's not mainstream. The unfortunate issue is that it's falling behind in my use-case, by a lot and that's a bummer.
    - stiray 6y ago
      I have submitted multiple bugs for ZoL, from prohibiting boot of zfs as root (for the sake of boot beeing faster (?) they are not doing zpool import -a(f) but rather rely on cache file which is... crazy). Also the .zfs/snapshot still doesnt work. Both are vital issues and still not beeing fixed. Boot on Linux laptop now looks like: - power on - wait for recovery shell - `zpool import -a` - `exit` In all my years I have never observed this on FreeBSD and... as I have said, I expect from FreeBSD to be rock solid and it never dissapointed. ZoL? I wouldn't be running it on my linux servers for a while. The basic mistakes that they are doing are not something that apriciate from file system that is meant to be as reliable as possible.
      - layoutIfNeeded 6y ago
        > Also the .zfs/snapshot still doesnt work. What do you mean by this? I’m using ZoL and snapshots seem to be working fine.
        stiray 6y ago
        zfs has a feature where you can `cd` to hidden .zfs folder (you wont see it by `ls`, imagine it like /procfs but hidden) on root of zfs filesystem (if you have tank/whatever mounted to /whatever this would be /whatever/.zfs) with some interesting content: within .zfs/snapshot you will get a list of snapshots for that filesystem with materialized state (!!!) of fs when the snapshot was taken. Imagine (instead of rollback the snapshot), just copying the original file(s) from there, with content from the time when snapshot was created. This is imho, the killer feature of zfs, maybe matching only by VMS or DragonflyBSD hammer filesystems. They were/are both better at it (`undo`!) but zfs comes closely. And it is broken for months now.
  - truncate 6y ago
    I agree with wanting an stable OS and FreeBSD definitely is, and having read some Linux and FreeBSD code few years ago, FreeBSD was lot cleaner. Having said that, we use OS to run things. I feel FreeBSD is lacking there, and despite being incredible, that incredibility seems less attractive. Its hard enough to write things that work correctly in different Linux environments, I'm not sure how much more work would it be in FreeBSD land (hardware drivers, software outside Portage repo, and support) -- specially considering a lot of software is written with Linux (or Win/macOS depending what we are talking about) support first in mind, and anything else is more or less a "checklist" thing. So from a user perspective, it comes down to -- do I want to spend time tackling software/configuration issues that I'm very likely have if I run this on FreeBSD vs. should I run in a slightly less cleaner OS that just works 99.99% of the time.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    To each its own, while FreeBSD might be a nice server or game console OS, sadly it isn't what I need in desktop computing. And for server deployments, cloud and language runtimes make the underlying OS kind of meaningless, other than for those doing low level performance optimizations. I am missing an updated version of "The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System", though.
- stiray 6y ago
  You might check this: https://www.bsdstore.ru/en/articles/cbsd_k8s_part1.html https://www.bsdstore.ru/en/articles/cbsd_k8s_part1.html I have nothing against linux. But for mission critical tasks I will choose FreeBSD. I have seen too many times linux distributions (Linus is sane - distributions decisions on the other hand are making me scratch my head just too often) pulling "Crazy Ivan" and I really dislike it. For FreeBSD I know I wont encounter any nasty suprises and I consider it paramount. And once you encounter some jewels like setfib (https://www.unix.com/man-page/freebsd/1/SETFIB/ https://www.unix.com/man-page/freebsd/1/SETFIB/) you just fall in love <3

by stiray 6y ago

waynesonfire 6y ago

it's comments like this that make we want to take the dive. thanks for not only supporting the freebsd team but encouraging potential future users. though with that said, i will say that k8s is taking over the world and bsds are going to be left in the dust for my use-case, non-(appliance, embedded, IoT) applications.

toast0 6y ago
We've been hearing FreeBSD is dying since before it's been the year of linux on the desktop. Is FreeBSD ever going to be hip and trendy? Probably not, it's not 1994 anymore. But, I don't need a hip amd trendy OS, I need an OS that provides a stable base for me to work upon and supports enough hardware that I can chose decent parts. As a bonus, I've found it easy enough to muck with the internals when it has benefited me or my employer.
- akira2501 6y ago
  It's hard to believe it's been so long since "It is now official. Netcraft has confirmed: *BSD is dying" was originally written.
  - toyg 6y ago
    I'm surprised the meme is still understood. Do young geeks even know what Netcraft was...? It reminds me that in my hometown, opening a communal door of a condo from your flat is called "pulling", because people used to pull a cord to do it when electricity "didn't exist". Nobody has had to pull a cord to open a door in probably 80 years, but everyone there still says "I'll pull it".
- waynesonfire 6y ago
  I'm not questioning whether FreeBSD is hip or trendy. Not sure why you're bringing that up. I'd pick up FreeBSD in a heartbeat if I knew that the investment in learning the platform would help me be productive in production. But like you said, it's not 1994 anymore and modern deployment and maintenance of an application stack is docker and k8s. A trend where the OS is abstracted away as much as possible. So why invest in FreeBSD? Okay, so maybe it's a nice OS for appliances; though so is Linux and I can continue to leverage my knowledge. At home I run an appliance and thought I'd deploy FreeBSD on it to run my storage server. I was really excited to deploy ZFS, the BSD killer app. The justification for this getting more difficult to make since ZFS on Linux is production ready. I want to use FreeBSD. I don't care that it's not mainstream. The unfortunate issue is that it's falling behind in my use-case, by a lot and that's a bummer.
  - stiray 6y ago
    I have submitted multiple bugs for ZoL, from prohibiting boot of zfs as root (for the sake of boot beeing faster (?) they are not doing zpool import -a(f) but rather rely on cache file which is... crazy). Also the .zfs/snapshot still doesnt work. Both are vital issues and still not beeing fixed. Boot on Linux laptop now looks like: - power on - wait for recovery shell - `zpool import -a` - `exit` In all my years I have never observed this on FreeBSD and... as I have said, I expect from FreeBSD to be rock solid and it never dissapointed. ZoL? I wouldn't be running it on my linux servers for a while. The basic mistakes that they are doing are not something that apriciate from file system that is meant to be as reliable as possible.
    - layoutIfNeeded 6y ago
      > Also the .zfs/snapshot still doesnt work. What do you mean by this? I’m using ZoL and snapshots seem to be working fine.
      - stiray 6y ago
        zfs has a feature where you can `cd` to hidden .zfs folder (you wont see it by `ls`, imagine it like /procfs but hidden) on root of zfs filesystem (if you have tank/whatever mounted to /whatever this would be /whatever/.zfs) with some interesting content: within .zfs/snapshot you will get a list of snapshots for that filesystem with materialized state (!!!) of fs when the snapshot was taken. Imagine (instead of rollback the snapshot), just copying the original file(s) from there, with content from the time when snapshot was created. This is imho, the killer feature of zfs, maybe matching only by VMS or DragonflyBSD hammer filesystems. They were/are both better at it (`undo`!) but zfs comes closely. And it is broken for months now.
- truncate 6y ago
  I agree with wanting an stable OS and FreeBSD definitely is, and having read some Linux and FreeBSD code few years ago, FreeBSD was lot cleaner. Having said that, we use OS to run things. I feel FreeBSD is lacking there, and despite being incredible, that incredibility seems less attractive. Its hard enough to write things that work correctly in different Linux environments, I'm not sure how much more work would it be in FreeBSD land (hardware drivers, software outside Portage repo, and support) -- specially considering a lot of software is written with Linux (or Win/macOS depending what we are talking about) support first in mind, and anything else is more or less a "checklist" thing. So from a user perspective, it comes down to -- do I want to spend time tackling software/configuration issues that I'm very likely have if I run this on FreeBSD vs. should I run in a slightly less cleaner OS that just works 99.99% of the time.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  To each its own, while FreeBSD might be a nice server or game console OS, sadly it isn't what I need in desktop computing. And for server deployments, cloud and language runtimes make the underlying OS kind of meaningless, other than for those doing low level performance optimizations. I am missing an updated version of "The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System", though.
stiray 6y ago
You might check this: https://www.bsdstore.ru/en/articles/cbsd_k8s_part1.html https://www.bsdstore.ru/en/articles/cbsd_k8s_part1.html I have nothing against linux. But for mission critical tasks I will choose FreeBSD. I have seen too many times linux distributions (Linus is sane - distributions decisions on the other hand are making me scratch my head just too often) pulling "Crazy Ivan" and I really dislike it. For FreeBSD I know I wont encounter any nasty suprises and I consider it paramount. And once you encounter some jewels like setfib (https://www.unix.com/man-page/freebsd/1/SETFIB/ https://www.unix.com/man-page/freebsd/1/SETFIB/) you just fall in love <3