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So now there are new slightly faster processors for three Ryzen 3000 processors, two of them were always a bad deal so far and that won't change with a few MHz

by onli 6y ago

So now there are new slightly faster processors for three Ryzen 3000 processors, two of them were always a bad deal so far and that won't change with a few MHz more. A "faster" 3900X is nice of course, the 3900X was already nice, but without the cooler this is effectively a big price increase for virtually no gain. All while making AMDs sku lineup more confusing. What an unnecessary release. I hope that benchmarks prove me wrong here, but I doubt it.

Nursie 6y ago
Why were the 3600X and 3800X a bad deal? With higher TDP they achieve higher sustained speeds than the 3600/3700X. A further boost at the same price point seems a good plan. Presumably the non-T parts are superseded by these.
- onli 6y ago
  Because they are not significantly faster in practice. The higher TDP does not help as much as you would think. Gamersnexus called it "paying for the letter X"[0]. I see the same in my meta benchmark in games especially[1], but also in apps[2]. There are differences, but if you are not in a situation where every single inch of performance counts that's not worth the higher price. It's not like that's just a few cents. And now you have a price increase of $50 (for a good air cooler) to $100 (if you follow AMDs advice of buying a 280mm AIO) on the 3800XT. Makes the deal a lot worse for most, if there are not hidden performance advantages not visible so far. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAGQwWDyURI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAGQwWDyURI (I think that was here, might have been for the 3600X) [1]: https://www.pc-kombo.com/us/benchmark/games/cpu/compare?ids%5B%5D=AMD+Ryzen+5+3600X&ids%5B%5D=AMD+Ryzen+5+3600&ids%5B%5D=AMD+Ryzen+7+3700X&ids%5B%5D=AMD+Ryzen+7+3800X#markdown https://www.pc-kombo.com/us/benchmark/games/cpu/compare?ids%... [2]: https://www.pc-kombo.com/us/benchmark/apps/cpu/compare?ids[]=AMD+Ryzen+5+3600X&ids[]=AMD+Ryzen+5+3600&ids[]=AMD+Ryzen+7+3700X&ids[]=AMD+Ryzen+7+3800X#markdown https://www.pc-kombo.com/us/benchmark/apps/cpu/compare?ids[]...
  - Nursie 6y ago
    There's a fairly small performance increase, around 4% sure, but the price difference is only about 10% in the UK at present. yhese XT processors increase it a little more at the same price point. Really not sure what there is to complain about...
    - onli 6y ago
      0% for the Ryzen 7 in games, 2% for the Ryzen 5s. In applications 2% and 4%. Might differ a bit with a different benchmark selection, but that's the gist. 10% higher price for that is already bad. > These XT processors increase it a little more at the same price point. Only for the Ryzen 5s (and the 3600XT could come out a bit better looking). For the Ryzen 7s the price point is not the same, you have to factor in the cooler you have to buy now. That will make the offer even less attractive.
      - Nursie 6y ago
        >0% for the Ryzen 7 in games The CPU is less and less relevant for gaming. The reviews I've seen put it out ahead consistently but only by a 1-2fps. And as you say, a few percent in applications. If you want those couple of percent then you'll pay a 10% higher price for it. Disproportionate but to me it's still a great value processor. And also for me the price would be the same - AMD's wraith cooler was noisy and I ditched it ASAP on both the 3700X and 3800X we have in the house here. They're in boxes in the attic so pretty much have negative value.
        onli 6y ago
        > The CPU is less and less relevant for gaming I wouldn't say that. We had a couple of very cpu heavy game releases recently, and with new console generations that usually makes a jump. And you can get a bigger performance jump in games - with Intel. > The reviews I've seen put it out ahead consistently but only by a 1-2fp Right, rounds down to 0%. > Disproportionate but to me it's still a great value processor. No, by definition it's not a great value anymore if you pay that much more for that small gain, if you have equally fast alternatives after a minimal overclock. You could have sold the Wraith cooler :) But that's a valid argument, for some the cooler inclusion or non-inclusion does not matter. AMD won't do that change without a reason. They probably feel they are in the position for that now. They boosted the stock cooler importance for Zen 1 (that thing was great) gaining goodwill, then made it worse, now start to remove it completely. The infinite circle of corporate attention and customer focus in action.
delfinom 6y ago
You do not want to ever use the stock cooler on the 3900X, it does work but at the cost of high fan RPM cool it and you'll want to stab your ears out from the fans ramping up and down cyclically every 15 seconds from the aggressive PBO bumps that translate to immediate temperature spikes and CPU fan ramp ups. You want some of the larger heatsinks available like the Dark Rock Pro which can suck up the heat without needing to spin up fans.
- Macha 6y ago
  Yeah, while AMD's stock coolers reviewed well on other CPUs, I went a few weeks with the wraith prism on a 3900x then decided it had to go. Though if these are the same more efficient chiplet bins as the 3950x, maybe the prism would make more sense on a 3900xt. Given they're not including it though, I guess AMD didn't think so
  - heelix 6y ago
    Same. The stock fan on the 3900x was a bit noisy - spinning up and down all the time. Replaced it with a closed loop water cooler after a couple weeks.
- reitzensteinm 6y ago
  I bought a 3900X and have a stock cooler on it, and have a Dark Rock Pro 4 sitting next to me which I purchased because the stock cooler was way too loud. If you build a PC with a high end Ryzen in it, you should listen to this advice.

by onli 6y ago

Nursie 6y ago

Why were the 3600X and 3800X a bad deal? With higher TDP they achieve higher sustained speeds than the 3600/3700X. A further boost at the same price point seems a good plan. Presumably the non-T parts are superseded by these.

onli 6y ago
Because they are not significantly faster in practice. The higher TDP does not help as much as you would think. Gamersnexus called it "paying for the letter X"[0]. I see the same in my meta benchmark in games especially[1], but also in apps[2]. There are differences, but if you are not in a situation where every single inch of performance counts that's not worth the higher price. It's not like that's just a few cents. And now you have a price increase of $50 (for a good air cooler) to $100 (if you follow AMDs advice of buying a 280mm AIO) on the 3800XT. Makes the deal a lot worse for most, if there are not hidden performance advantages not visible so far. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAGQwWDyURI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAGQwWDyURI (I think that was here, might have been for the 3600X) [1]: https://www.pc-kombo.com/us/benchmark/games/cpu/compare?ids%5B%5D=AMD+Ryzen+5+3600X&ids%5B%5D=AMD+Ryzen+5+3600&ids%5B%5D=AMD+Ryzen+7+3700X&ids%5B%5D=AMD+Ryzen+7+3800X#markdown https://www.pc-kombo.com/us/benchmark/games/cpu/compare?ids%... [2]: https://www.pc-kombo.com/us/benchmark/apps/cpu/compare?ids[]=AMD+Ryzen+5+3600X&ids[]=AMD+Ryzen+5+3600&ids[]=AMD+Ryzen+7+3700X&ids[]=AMD+Ryzen+7+3800X#markdown https://www.pc-kombo.com/us/benchmark/apps/cpu/compare?ids[]...
- Nursie 6y ago
  There's a fairly small performance increase, around 4% sure, but the price difference is only about 10% in the UK at present. yhese XT processors increase it a little more at the same price point. Really not sure what there is to complain about...
  - onli 6y ago
    0% for the Ryzen 7 in games, 2% for the Ryzen 5s. In applications 2% and 4%. Might differ a bit with a different benchmark selection, but that's the gist. 10% higher price for that is already bad. > These XT processors increase it a little more at the same price point. Only for the Ryzen 5s (and the 3600XT could come out a bit better looking). For the Ryzen 7s the price point is not the same, you have to factor in the cooler you have to buy now. That will make the offer even less attractive.
    - Nursie 6y ago
      >0% for the Ryzen 7 in games The CPU is less and less relevant for gaming. The reviews I've seen put it out ahead consistently but only by a 1-2fps. And as you say, a few percent in applications. If you want those couple of percent then you'll pay a 10% higher price for it. Disproportionate but to me it's still a great value processor. And also for me the price would be the same - AMD's wraith cooler was noisy and I ditched it ASAP on both the 3700X and 3800X we have in the house here. They're in boxes in the attic so pretty much have negative value.
      - onli 6y ago
        > The CPU is less and less relevant for gaming I wouldn't say that. We had a couple of very cpu heavy game releases recently, and with new console generations that usually makes a jump. And you can get a bigger performance jump in games - with Intel. > The reviews I've seen put it out ahead consistently but only by a 1-2fp Right, rounds down to 0%. > Disproportionate but to me it's still a great value processor. No, by definition it's not a great value anymore if you pay that much more for that small gain, if you have equally fast alternatives after a minimal overclock. You could have sold the Wraith cooler :) But that's a valid argument, for some the cooler inclusion or non-inclusion does not matter. AMD won't do that change without a reason. They probably feel they are in the position for that now. They boosted the stock cooler importance for Zen 1 (that thing was great) gaining goodwill, then made it worse, now start to remove it completely. The infinite circle of corporate attention and customer focus in action.

delfinom 6y ago

You do not want to ever use the stock cooler on the 3900X, it does work but at the cost of high fan RPM cool it and you'll want to stab your ears out from the fans ramping up and down cyclically every 15 seconds from the aggressive PBO bumps that translate to immediate temperature spikes and CPU fan ramp ups. You want some of the larger heatsinks available like the Dark Rock Pro which can suck up the heat without needing to spin up fans.

Macha 6y ago
Yeah, while AMD's stock coolers reviewed well on other CPUs, I went a few weeks with the wraith prism on a 3900x then decided it had to go. Though if these are the same more efficient chiplet bins as the 3950x, maybe the prism would make more sense on a 3900xt. Given they're not including it though, I guess AMD didn't think so
- heelix 6y ago
  Same. The stock fan on the 3900x was a bit noisy - spinning up and down all the time. Replaced it with a closed loop water cooler after a couple weeks.
reitzensteinm 6y ago
I bought a 3900X and have a stock cooler on it, and have a Dark Rock Pro 4 sitting next to me which I purchased because the stock cooler was way too loud. If you build a PC with a high end Ryzen in it, you should listen to this advice.