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> if you aren't affluent enough to afford Harvard tuition, or if you don't have a full scholarship, Harvard tuition is not worth the degree and student loans yo

by csa 6y ago

> if you aren't affluent enough to afford Harvard tuition, or if you don't have a full scholarship, Harvard tuition is not worth the degree and student loans you end up with. Ivy League schools are famously generous with financial aid. If the tuition cost is an issue for your family, odds are that you won’t be paying sticker price. It would not be uncommon for a typical “middle class” family (not upper middle class, definitely not FAANG programmer) to pay no tuition, and loans, grants, work study, and family contributions go towards room, board, and miscellaneous expenses.

devxpy 6y ago
Please, some data to back this claim?
camelNotation 6y ago
The point still stands that what you are paying for in college is a network and credentials. Harvard offers the best of both, but success is still a thousand inputs and statistical probabilities, no guarantees. I've worked with several Ivy League grads, including some from Harvard. Some succeed, some still fail miserably. A good education improves your chances of success, but it isn't necessary. So unless you are getting that free tuition or come from a wealthy background, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go through the effort required for a school like that.
- rococode 6y ago
  > unless you are getting that free tuition or come from a wealthy background The point that's being made is that your "unless" covers effectively every single student at Harvard (and the other need-blind schools). If you get in, you're either well-off and don't care about tuition, or the price tag is going to be low enough that you can justify paying it to go to Harvard instead of taking whatever other scholarships you may have received (and it may even be overall cheaper than other schools). These top schools know their students are getting full scholarships from other schools. They accepted them because they want them, and a couple thousand dollars a year's difference is a low price for them to pay to ensure the student chooses their school. I think the only valid "unless" is "unless you're wealthy but not super-wealthy". There's certainly a range of income where they won't give you aid but you aren't that rich (maybe your parents are FAANG SWEs). If your family makes $800k a year, you probably won't get any financial aid but you may still balk at a $250k tuition.
coliveira 6y ago
This doesn't match reality. Obamas' student debt reached $40K each. And it most certainly got worse since then.
macspoofing 6y ago
>Ivy League schools are famously generous with financial aid. That requires quite a bit of qualification on your part. Ivy League schools will allocate a certain number of seats to allow those with the grades but without the means to attend the school. I guess that's generous, but let's not overstate this generosity. They need a lot more students paying full price. >If the tuition cost is an issue for your family, odds are that you won’t be paying sticker price. Like I said - if you can get a full scholarship to attend Harvard, great! Do it! If you need to take out loans that will leave you in debt for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars with nothing but a 4-year bachelor's degree from Harvard, run away!
- jessriedel 6y ago
  > Ivy League schools will allocate a certain number of seats to allow those with the grades but without the means to attend the school. Incorrect. All of the Ivies perform need-blind admissions for US citizens; they make an admissions decision without knowing whether the student will need financial aid (which is determined according to a formula). Harvard, Princeton, and Yale are furthermore need-blind for all non-American applicants, while the others look at need for a varying selections of non-American. https://www.forsterthomas.com/admissionsconsultingblog/which-ivy-league-colleges-are-need-blind-and-under-which-circumstances https://www.forsterthomas.com/admissionsconsultingblog/which... Obviously, this is possible because they have huge endowments (they could do just fine charging zero tuition) and they know that statistically a large fraction of the admits will come from very wealthy families that will pay most/all of tuition.
- csa 6y ago
  All of this is untrue, and frankly it sounds like you are talking out of your ass. 1. Harvard (iirc, all Ivies) has need blind admissions. This is plastered all over their admissions materials. They want the best students period (edit: there are exceptions for international students at some schools). 2. None of the Ivies need the students to pay full price for tuition due to their endowments and other revenue streams. In fact, you would laugh if you saw how little undergrad tuition contributes to the school’s operating budget. 3. Scholarships are not the main source of free money. Most of the free money is in the form of need-based grants. Most (all?) of this grant money goes towards reducing all or part of the tuition cost. 4. For folks who come from modest means, loans and family contributions will be used almost exclusively for room, board, and miscellaneous expenses. The typical loan amount might surprise you by how low it is, and a 6-figure loan balance for an undergrad would be very unlikely (I’ve never heard of one, although they may exist). Note that I am referring undergrad and not to graduate schools, especially professional schools... those are completely different.

by csa 6y ago

devxpy 6y ago

Please, some data to back this claim?

camelNotation 6y ago

The point still stands that what you are paying for in college is a network and credentials. Harvard offers the best of both, but success is still a thousand inputs and statistical probabilities, no guarantees. I've worked with several Ivy League grads, including some from Harvard. Some succeed, some still fail miserably. A good education improves your chances of success, but it isn't necessary. So unless you are getting that free tuition or come from a wealthy background, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go through the effort required for a school like that.

rococode 6y ago
> unless you are getting that free tuition or come from a wealthy background The point that's being made is that your "unless" covers effectively every single student at Harvard (and the other need-blind schools). If you get in, you're either well-off and don't care about tuition, or the price tag is going to be low enough that you can justify paying it to go to Harvard instead of taking whatever other scholarships you may have received (and it may even be overall cheaper than other schools). These top schools know their students are getting full scholarships from other schools. They accepted them because they want them, and a couple thousand dollars a year's difference is a low price for them to pay to ensure the student chooses their school. I think the only valid "unless" is "unless you're wealthy but not super-wealthy". There's certainly a range of income where they won't give you aid but you aren't that rich (maybe your parents are FAANG SWEs). If your family makes $800k a year, you probably won't get any financial aid but you may still balk at a $250k tuition.

coliveira 6y ago

This doesn't match reality. Obamas' student debt reached $40K each. And it most certainly got worse since then.

macspoofing 6y ago

>Ivy League schools are famously generous with financial aid. That requires quite a bit of qualification on your part. Ivy League schools will allocate a certain number of seats to allow those with the grades but without the means to attend the school. I guess that's generous, but let's not overstate this generosity. They need a lot more students paying full price. >If the tuition cost is an issue for your family, odds are that you won’t be paying sticker price. Like I said - if you can get a full scholarship to attend Harvard, great! Do it! If you need to take out loans that will leave you in debt for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars with nothing but a 4-year bachelor's degree from Harvard, run away!

jessriedel 6y ago
> Ivy League schools will allocate a certain number of seats to allow those with the grades but without the means to attend the school. Incorrect. All of the Ivies perform need-blind admissions for US citizens; they make an admissions decision without knowing whether the student will need financial aid (which is determined according to a formula). Harvard, Princeton, and Yale are furthermore need-blind for all non-American applicants, while the others look at need for a varying selections of non-American. https://www.forsterthomas.com/admissionsconsultingblog/which-ivy-league-colleges-are-need-blind-and-under-which-circumstances https://www.forsterthomas.com/admissionsconsultingblog/which... Obviously, this is possible because they have huge endowments (they could do just fine charging zero tuition) and they know that statistically a large fraction of the admits will come from very wealthy families that will pay most/all of tuition.
csa 6y ago
All of this is untrue, and frankly it sounds like you are talking out of your ass. 1. Harvard (iirc, all Ivies) has need blind admissions. This is plastered all over their admissions materials. They want the best students period (edit: there are exceptions for international students at some schools). 2. None of the Ivies need the students to pay full price for tuition due to their endowments and other revenue streams. In fact, you would laugh if you saw how little undergrad tuition contributes to the school’s operating budget. 3. Scholarships are not the main source of free money. Most of the free money is in the form of need-based grants. Most (all?) of this grant money goes towards reducing all or part of the tuition cost. 4. For folks who come from modest means, loans and family contributions will be used almost exclusively for room, board, and miscellaneous expenses. The typical loan amount might surprise you by how low it is, and a 6-figure loan balance for an undergrad would be very unlikely (I’ve never heard of one, although they may exist). Note that I am referring undergrad and not to graduate schools, especially professional schools... those are completely different.