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> To say everyone knew is incorrect; to imagine you could change things if you knew is also wrong. Can we today stop our government from cramming children into

by ihm 6y ago

> To say everyone knew is incorrect; to imagine you could change things if you knew is also wrong. Can we today stop our government from cramming children into cages and then forgetting them? Yet we have modern media and still horrific things are done in our name and we either ignore it or feel helpless to do anything. I agree with this point and take your criticism that I painted with too broad a brush in terms of who could know what.

goto11 6y ago
Careful now. Everybody knew the Jews were persecuted, had their rights and belongings taken away and were rounded up in ghettos and camps, from where they eventually were "evacuated to the East". What civilians could justifiably claim is they didn't know where or how the killing happened. Information about this was kept vague. While the concentration camps where public knowledge, the extermination camps were kept secret. So German civilians could say they didn't know about Babi Yar or Treblinka and the gas chambers - but that is a far cry from saying they didn't know about the persecution and genocide. It should also be noted that the T4 euthanasia program was scaled back due to public protests. This shows not only that people actually knew it happened (even if it was kind-of secret) but also that protest could actually work. The Nazi party actually cared a great deal about public opinion which is why propaganda was so important to them. One of the reasons the extermination camps were kept secret is they feared protests. There were also the Rosenstrasse protests, where (non-Jewish) wives of Jewish men protested against deportation of their men. This actually caused the men to be released. So "we didn't know and couldn't have done anything anyway" is ahistorical. I can understand why people cling to it, but it is a dangerous myth.
greedo 6y ago
If you haven't already, you should read Daniel Goldhagen's book, "Hitler's Willing Executioners."

by ihm 6y ago

goto11 6y ago

Careful now. Everybody knew the Jews were persecuted, had their rights and belongings taken away and were rounded up in ghettos and camps, from where they eventually were "evacuated to the East". What civilians could justifiably claim is they didn't know where or how the killing happened. Information about this was kept vague. While the concentration camps where public knowledge, the extermination camps were kept secret. So German civilians could say they didn't know about Babi Yar or Treblinka and the gas chambers - but that is a far cry from saying they didn't know about the persecution and genocide. It should also be noted that the T4 euthanasia program was scaled back due to public protests. This shows not only that people actually knew it happened (even if it was kind-of secret) but also that protest could actually work. The Nazi party actually cared a great deal about public opinion which is why propaganda was so important to them. One of the reasons the extermination camps were kept secret is they feared protests. There were also the Rosenstrasse protests, where (non-Jewish) wives of Jewish men protested against deportation of their men. This actually caused the men to be released. So "we didn't know and couldn't have done anything anyway" is ahistorical. I can understand why people cling to it, but it is a dangerous myth.

greedo 6y ago

If you haven't already, you should read Daniel Goldhagen's book, "Hitler's Willing Executioners."