5 ms·

This post is disgusting and should be removed. Encouraging destruction in chaos is not democratic discourse.

iron0013 6y ago
One may practice consensual statue toppling if one prefers.
happytoexplain 6y ago
I find it hard to imagine that you'd sneer in "disgust" and accuse people of "destruction" and "chaos" if they were knocking over a statue of somebody who murdered your family. This accusation is extremely easy to make, and it's always hypocritical on a long enough timeline.
- nickthegreek 6y ago
  Favorite meme I've seen about the confederate statues goes like: "If someone kidnapped your child and sold them, where would you want us to put a statue of that person?"
  - gotoeleven 6y ago
    The one for Thomas Jefferson could be "if someone did more for the freedom and prosperity of the world than anyone else ever, where would you like the statue?"
    - Kednicma 6y ago
      "If". I would suggest, for freedom, that Abraham Lincoln did more to increase freedom by directly emancipating millions of slaves; for prosperity, I'd choose Albert Sabin, one of the vaccinators against polio. What, exactly, did Jefferson do that is comparable?
      - gotoeleven 6y ago
        Wrote the declaration of independence and the US constitution, which created the first government based on the concept of unalienable human rights and was a great inspiration for later democracies.
        scarface74 6y ago
        You mean the same constitution that allowed slavery and counted slaves as 3/5 of a person?
        gotoeleven 6y ago
        I know this is a very tricky point so Ill use short words: people who have done great things can also have done bad things.
        scarface74 6y ago
        So yeah. It’s a great thing to create a “democracy” that was only democratic for White Males. Even women didn’t have the right to vote. Let’s just gloss over that. Why not? That’s what the entire US educational system does.
        gotoeleven 6y ago
        Did you know martin luther king was a plagiarist and a philanderer in addition to being a great civil rights leader? Should we bring down his statues?
        scarface74 6y ago
        Even so are you really comparing that to slavery?
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - scarface74 6y ago
      I bet his slaves would beg to differ....
  - golf3 6y ago
    You think they're going to stop after the Confederate statues?
    - 0max 6y ago
      We may even start replacing streets named after European explorers with people who killed them like Lapu-Lapu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapu-Lapu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapu-Lapu
- DenisM 6y ago
  A decision to topple a statue should be made by the consensus of the people, not by the voluntaristic actions of the few. To sidestep the people's consensus is to undermine the democratic principles of governance, and with it the foundation of our society. There is a lot more at stake here than the statues. Today you support a lawless action of the few because they satiate your vengeance, tomorrow someone else will undermine the law to your detriment because it benefits them. Where does that leave us?
  - xtiansimon 6y ago
    Hypothetically, and without rancor, please consider what "consensus of the people" would look like if "democratic principles of governance" (as a system) were failing or not serving the governed. I'm not harmed by a toppled statue. I don't have to look at this statue in my community every day. For me these are really hypothetical questions I can look at from some distance. What strikes me as close to home is this: "All lives can't matter until black lives matter" (protest sign on Instagram). This is happening n o w. This is history in the making.
metabagel 6y ago
I think the author was being facetious. It’s welcome humor for those of us who are upset that 150 years after the civil war, the soldiers who fought to preserve the system of slavery are still glorified in our public spaces. But, if someone takes the article seriously and and brings down one of those awful edifices? More power to them. Those monuments are truly hideous.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
samizdis 6y ago
I do not think that this is encouraging destruction, but rather encouraging science - and also safety in statue-removal scenarios. The writers/editors of Popular Mechanics (and similar) often try to relate what they want to teach/say to contemporaneous news/events.
scarface74 6y ago
Do you live in the US? The country with the largest military in the world where we go around spreading destruction and chaos to “bring Democracy” to other countries?
non-entity 6y ago
Agreed, we should also ban all articles I don't like.

One may practice consensual statue toppling if one prefers.

I find it hard to imagine that you'd sneer in "disgust" and accuse people of "destruction" and "chaos" if they were knocking over a statue of somebody who murdered your family. This accusation is extremely easy to make, and it's always hypocritical on a long enough timeline.

nickthegreek 6y ago
Favorite meme I've seen about the confederate statues goes like: "If someone kidnapped your child and sold them, where would you want us to put a statue of that person?"
- gotoeleven 6y ago
  The one for Thomas Jefferson could be "if someone did more for the freedom and prosperity of the world than anyone else ever, where would you like the statue?"
  - Kednicma 6y ago
    "If". I would suggest, for freedom, that Abraham Lincoln did more to increase freedom by directly emancipating millions of slaves; for prosperity, I'd choose Albert Sabin, one of the vaccinators against polio. What, exactly, did Jefferson do that is comparable?
    - gotoeleven 6y ago
      Wrote the declaration of independence and the US constitution, which created the first government based on the concept of unalienable human rights and was a great inspiration for later democracies.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        You mean the same constitution that allowed slavery and counted slaves as 3/5 of a person?
        gotoeleven 6y ago
        I know this is a very tricky point so Ill use short words: people who have done great things can also have done bad things.
        scarface74 6y ago
        So yeah. It’s a great thing to create a “democracy” that was only democratic for White Males. Even women didn’t have the right to vote. Let’s just gloss over that. Why not? That’s what the entire US educational system does.
        gotoeleven 6y ago
        Did you know martin luther king was a plagiarist and a philanderer in addition to being a great civil rights leader? Should we bring down his statues?
        scarface74 6y ago
        Even so are you really comparing that to slavery?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - scarface74 6y ago
    I bet his slaves would beg to differ....
- golf3 6y ago
  You think they're going to stop after the Confederate statues?
  - 0max 6y ago
    We may even start replacing streets named after European explorers with people who killed them like Lapu-Lapu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapu-Lapu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapu-Lapu
DenisM 6y ago
A decision to topple a statue should be made by the consensus of the people, not by the voluntaristic actions of the few. To sidestep the people's consensus is to undermine the democratic principles of governance, and with it the foundation of our society. There is a lot more at stake here than the statues. Today you support a lawless action of the few because they satiate your vengeance, tomorrow someone else will undermine the law to your detriment because it benefits them. Where does that leave us?
- xtiansimon 6y ago
  Hypothetically, and without rancor, please consider what "consensus of the people" would look like if "democratic principles of governance" (as a system) were failing or not serving the governed. I'm not harmed by a toppled statue. I don't have to look at this statue in my community every day. For me these are really hypothetical questions I can look at from some distance. What strikes me as close to home is this: "All lives can't matter until black lives matter" (protest sign on Instagram). This is happening n o w. This is history in the making.

metabagel 6y ago

I think the author was being facetious. It’s welcome humor for those of us who are upset that 150 years after the civil war, the soldiers who fought to preserve the system of slavery are still glorified in our public spaces. But, if someone takes the article seriously and and brings down one of those awful edifices? More power to them. Those monuments are truly hideous.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

samizdis 6y ago

I do not think that this is encouraging destruction, but rather encouraging science - and also safety in statue-removal scenarios. The writers/editors of Popular Mechanics (and similar) often try to relate what they want to teach/say to contemporaneous news/events.

scarface74 6y ago

Do you live in the US? The country with the largest military in the world where we go around spreading destruction and chaos to “bring Democracy” to other countries?

non-entity 6y ago

Agreed, we should also ban all articles I don't like.