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Harvard can be corrupt. There's a very average girl in my town who wouldn't get admitted to grad school at Harvard if her dad wasn't a law professor at Harvard.

Harvard can be corrupt. There's a very average girl in my town who wouldn't get admitted to grad school at Harvard if her dad wasn't a law professor at Harvard. Regarding asians. It's not about race. Diversity in academia is important for many reasons. It's not about being asian, it's about living in a rich family at a top school district, regardless of your race. A poor kid from a bad neighborhood cannot compete with that. The key is to find those who can close the gap. Taking someone's background into consideration is the right thing to do. There's some subjectivity in the process, so it's not ideal and someone would always be upset, but it's better than just looking at test scores. To give you an example. I have friends who live at one of the top school districts in MA. In the last 3 years of their daughter's high school, they optimized her acceptance to college. Spending a lot of money on private lessons, making sure she volunteers in the right places since it looks good on the college application, paying money for a local expert to help her with the admission essay, etc. This is on top of the fact that she is already at a great high school who is optimized for getting its students into top schools.

pcurve 6y ago
"I have a very average girl in my town who got admitted to grad school at Harvard only because her dad is a law professor at Harvard." I'm not saying Harvard isn't corrupt, but admitting professor's kid isn't really the best indicator of corruption. It's nothing unusual in many schools and they don't hide it.
- tinyhouse 6y ago
  Not hiding it doesn't mean it's OK. Maybe corrupt is not the right word but it's not that important. Things like this are exactly what people are talking about when they protest against privilege.
  - Pfhreak 6y ago
    Harvard has 2400 professors and admits about 6000 students each year. Each professor might have a child that is at college age, but most won't. And parental admittance isn't a guarantee. We're talking about a negligible number of students on this path weighed against the employee happiness and retention.
    - viklove 6y ago
      We're talking about someone getting something they don't deserve due to their birth alone. That kind of injustice doesn't last long in society without someone calling it out.
      - MengerSponge 6y ago
        Have you considered that a professor's kid just might have picked up how to talk in a way that other professors like? That they might have learned how to work that is highly prized by academics? Of course, none of this would be visible to a random dude from their hometown. Applications are never just a perfect copy of you. You get to pick who writes letters of recommendation, you get to write the essays that frame and contextualize your successes and failures. Applying for things is a skill, and like all skills, it can be learned and improved.
        viklove 6y ago
        Then quit it with the lie that any person in the US has the same chance of success. It's obvious that the only thing that matters is who your parents are and how much money they have, let's accept it for what it is and stop praising success like it means you're better than everyone else.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - r-zip 6y ago
      The total undergrad population of Harvard isn't even 7,000, so I'm not sure where you pulled the 6,000 number from. A quick look at their website will show you they admit around 2,000 per year.
      - Pfhreak 6y ago
        I divided the total enrollment number from Google by 4. My investigation was not super thorough, I'm happy to correct it, though I think the point still stands.
- js2 6y ago
  I can understand the employment perk of making tuition free for employees' kids, but I'm less sure about reserving a slot. If I can make an analogy: as an employee of Verizon, I get a 50% discount on service, but when a new iPhone comes out, I'm not allowed to purchase it until after it's widely available. I would think the child of a college professor likely already has an academic leg up on your average kid. Those kids maybe even more than others really should have to have the grades to get in.
  - knolax 6y ago
    I think a better analogy would be like a world class chef not wanting to feed their kids McDonald's.
JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
I very briefly considered applying to MIT. I looked at application materials, and one of the questions was something to the effect of "What have you made/built that had impact on the world?" Knowing that I don't come from high society (both parents without college degrees), I knew I wouldn't have an interesting answer to this question relative to wealthy peers, and immediately bailed out on the process. I know being defeatist isn't a winning strategy, but I guarantee you people won't even apply because they think their chances are so remote. And truthfully, I didn't need to go to MIT to have a successful career. I went to a less competitive institution that still offered a rigorous education. Career-wise, it has worked out.
honkycat 6y ago
> A poor kid from a bad neighborhood cannot compete with that Yes. Exactly. You have no idea. I went to a poor rural school. We had 0 AP classes. We did 0 ACT prep, wasn't even mentioned. I didn't even know you could retake it. We did not have air conditioning and the temperature outside would often reach 100 degrees. Kids would tear up the floor tiles and smash them against the blackboard in my math class.
jessaustin 6y ago
It may be relevant that she got admitted as a grad student rather than undergrad. There are about twice as many grad students, and they get admitted by department rather than by the main admissions office. When I complained to my undergraduate advisor about how much work there was in a particular upper-level course, he scoffed: "The other students in that course went to undergrad elsewhere; you should be fine if you apply yourself." This professor certainly perceived a difference between the application processes of the two different groups.

pcurve 6y ago

"I have a very average girl in my town who got admitted to grad school at Harvard only because her dad is a law professor at Harvard." I'm not saying Harvard isn't corrupt, but admitting professor's kid isn't really the best indicator of corruption. It's nothing unusual in many schools and they don't hide it.

tinyhouse 6y ago
Not hiding it doesn't mean it's OK. Maybe corrupt is not the right word but it's not that important. Things like this are exactly what people are talking about when they protest against privilege.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Harvard has 2400 professors and admits about 6000 students each year. Each professor might have a child that is at college age, but most won't. And parental admittance isn't a guarantee. We're talking about a negligible number of students on this path weighed against the employee happiness and retention.
  - viklove 6y ago
    We're talking about someone getting something they don't deserve due to their birth alone. That kind of injustice doesn't last long in society without someone calling it out.
    - MengerSponge 6y ago
      Have you considered that a professor's kid just might have picked up how to talk in a way that other professors like? That they might have learned how to work that is highly prized by academics? Of course, none of this would be visible to a random dude from their hometown. Applications are never just a perfect copy of you. You get to pick who writes letters of recommendation, you get to write the essays that frame and contextualize your successes and failures. Applying for things is a skill, and like all skills, it can be learned and improved.
      - viklove 6y ago
        Then quit it with the lie that any person in the US has the same chance of success. It's obvious that the only thing that matters is who your parents are and how much money they have, let's accept it for what it is and stop praising success like it means you're better than everyone else.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - r-zip 6y ago
    The total undergrad population of Harvard isn't even 7,000, so I'm not sure where you pulled the 6,000 number from. A quick look at their website will show you they admit around 2,000 per year.
    - Pfhreak 6y ago
      I divided the total enrollment number from Google by 4. My investigation was not super thorough, I'm happy to correct it, though I think the point still stands.
js2 6y ago
I can understand the employment perk of making tuition free for employees' kids, but I'm less sure about reserving a slot. If I can make an analogy: as an employee of Verizon, I get a 50% discount on service, but when a new iPhone comes out, I'm not allowed to purchase it until after it's widely available. I would think the child of a college professor likely already has an academic leg up on your average kid. Those kids maybe even more than others really should have to have the grades to get in.
- knolax 6y ago
  I think a better analogy would be like a world class chef not wanting to feed their kids McDonald's.

JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago

I very briefly considered applying to MIT. I looked at application materials, and one of the questions was something to the effect of "What have you made/built that had impact on the world?" Knowing that I don't come from high society (both parents without college degrees), I knew I wouldn't have an interesting answer to this question relative to wealthy peers, and immediately bailed out on the process. I know being defeatist isn't a winning strategy, but I guarantee you people won't even apply because they think their chances are so remote. And truthfully, I didn't need to go to MIT to have a successful career. I went to a less competitive institution that still offered a rigorous education. Career-wise, it has worked out.

honkycat 6y ago

> A poor kid from a bad neighborhood cannot compete with that Yes. Exactly. You have no idea. I went to a poor rural school. We had 0 AP classes. We did 0 ACT prep, wasn't even mentioned. I didn't even know you could retake it. We did not have air conditioning and the temperature outside would often reach 100 degrees. Kids would tear up the floor tiles and smash them against the blackboard in my math class.

jessaustin 6y ago

It may be relevant that she got admitted as a grad student rather than undergrad. There are about twice as many grad students, and they get admitted by department rather than by the main admissions office. When I complained to my undergraduate advisor about how much work there was in a particular upper-level course, he scoffed: "The other students in that course went to undergrad elsewhere; you should be fine if you apply yourself." This professor certainly perceived a difference between the application processes of the two different groups.