3 ms·

It's probably a reference to immigration and how it (in their view) only benefited Capital owners.

by jacobush 6y ago

SuoDuanDao 6y ago
Is it taboo in Germany to suggest that increasing the supply of labour would drive down the price?
- luckylion 6y ago
  Yes. Anything that isn't praise and "we'll all be better off" is taboo, and it doesn't matter what party, what your other positions are, it's sacrilegious. It's not only immigration though, the same is true for e.g. European political integration. It's considered to be the only thing that keeps us from certain war, so any skepticism is understood as hyper nationalistic and willing to risk peace in Europe.
  - gspr 6y ago
    > Anything that isn't praise and "we'll all be better off" is taboo, and it doesn't matter what party, what your other positions are, it's sacrilegious. Are you sure that you're not mixing up that position being wrong with it being taboo? It seems to have become very popular these days, especially among the alt right, to blame the ridicule and ignoring of their opinions on the "PC mainstream" having labelled them as taboo or "censoring" them. Projecting snowflakes like they've time and time been shown to be.
    - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
      Perhaps we can get to the bottom of this. What are the consequences of being wrong in public on this issue?
      - gspr 6y ago
        > Perhaps we can get to the bottom of this. What are the consequences of being wrong in public on this issue? Someone living in Germany would be better suited to answer this, but, from my limited experience: the same as being wrong on a bunch of other things. Your statements are not considered sacrilegious, they're merely considered wrong and not worth listening to. For good reason, in my opinion. Nuanced debate, like how inequality is on the rise in Europe, how to deal with some eastern European countries failing to secure a free press, corruption, etc, is always welcomed. Blanket statements like in the comment I replied to, not so much.
        SuoDuanDao 6y ago
        thank you for clarifying. Is it fair to say that it is a faux pas to be hyperbolic around charged issues in public?
        gspr 6y ago
        > Is it fair to say that it is a faux pas to be hyperbolic around charged issues in public? I wouldn't call it faux pas per se. Just that you can't be expected to be taken seriously if you are.
        SuoDuanDao 6y ago
        Perhaps the confusion is about what 'taken seriously' means in the two cultures. Let me put it this way: would being a known member of the AFD affect one's job search irrespective of one's reasons for being a member?
        hef19898 6y ago
        German national, but still take it just my personal opinion. I would say maybe, of course not officially. Depends on your public profile, if you tending towards the extremes it would have a greater impact. Same would go for being on the extreme left, so. It also depends on the company you apply to. Just being a known, but bot very outspoken member, wouldn't have too much of an impact.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- hef19898 6y ago
  Overall, Germany profited greatly from the EU and the Euro. Also average workers. There is a group of employees in very precerious conditions, heritage of Agenda 2020. Nothing taboo to talk about, in fact ALG 2 and such are quite often discussed and challenged. Both factors have nothing to do with "German Guilt", implying that is a right wing thing. And not grounded in reality. Given that Weizsaeckers speach was all about accepting history, tolerance and so on, it would be fair to say if anything he would call for unity against racism, nationalism and so on.
  - ajTHak 6y ago
    No such thing has been implied, but you are only attacking straw men in this subthread (Dolchstosslegende, really?), European guilt (countries fighting each other since the beginning of time) has been used as a justification for the European Union. German guilt has been used as a justification for the Euro. The theory that average workers benefit from the Euro is false, and usually only propagated by those in cozy government positions, like bureaucrats or teachers who are isolated from reality. > implying that is a right wing thing. And there we go, such a position is literally fascist.
pkynbA 6y ago
Immigration is recent and secondary (but also a factor). The Euro and eastern expansion of the EU came first. The Euro was directly justified with historical references and allegedly a precondition for the German reunification. The Euro made companies rich and the population poor.
- gspr 6y ago
  > The Euro made companies rich and the population poor. In absolute terms, this is patently false. In relative terms, the outcome may be true, but are you so sure that the euro is to blame?

It's probably a reference to immigration and how it (in their view) only benefited Capital owners.

SuoDuanDao 6y ago

Is it taboo in Germany to suggest that increasing the supply of labour would drive down the price?

luckylion 6y ago
Yes. Anything that isn't praise and "we'll all be better off" is taboo, and it doesn't matter what party, what your other positions are, it's sacrilegious. It's not only immigration though, the same is true for e.g. European political integration. It's considered to be the only thing that keeps us from certain war, so any skepticism is understood as hyper nationalistic and willing to risk peace in Europe.
- gspr 6y ago
  > Anything that isn't praise and "we'll all be better off" is taboo, and it doesn't matter what party, what your other positions are, it's sacrilegious. Are you sure that you're not mixing up that position being wrong with it being taboo? It seems to have become very popular these days, especially among the alt right, to blame the ridicule and ignoring of their opinions on the "PC mainstream" having labelled them as taboo or "censoring" them. Projecting snowflakes like they've time and time been shown to be.
  - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
    Perhaps we can get to the bottom of this. What are the consequences of being wrong in public on this issue?
    - gspr 6y ago
      > Perhaps we can get to the bottom of this. What are the consequences of being wrong in public on this issue? Someone living in Germany would be better suited to answer this, but, from my limited experience: the same as being wrong on a bunch of other things. Your statements are not considered sacrilegious, they're merely considered wrong and not worth listening to. For good reason, in my opinion. Nuanced debate, like how inequality is on the rise in Europe, how to deal with some eastern European countries failing to secure a free press, corruption, etc, is always welcomed. Blanket statements like in the comment I replied to, not so much.
      - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
        thank you for clarifying. Is it fair to say that it is a faux pas to be hyperbolic around charged issues in public?
        gspr 6y ago
        > Is it fair to say that it is a faux pas to be hyperbolic around charged issues in public? I wouldn't call it faux pas per se. Just that you can't be expected to be taken seriously if you are.
        SuoDuanDao 6y ago
        Perhaps the confusion is about what 'taken seriously' means in the two cultures. Let me put it this way: would being a known member of the AFD affect one's job search irrespective of one's reasons for being a member?
        hef19898 6y ago
        German national, but still take it just my personal opinion. I would say maybe, of course not officially. Depends on your public profile, if you tending towards the extremes it would have a greater impact. Same would go for being on the extreme left, so. It also depends on the company you apply to. Just being a known, but bot very outspoken member, wouldn't have too much of an impact.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
hef19898 6y ago
Overall, Germany profited greatly from the EU and the Euro. Also average workers. There is a group of employees in very precerious conditions, heritage of Agenda 2020. Nothing taboo to talk about, in fact ALG 2 and such are quite often discussed and challenged. Both factors have nothing to do with "German Guilt", implying that is a right wing thing. And not grounded in reality. Given that Weizsaeckers speach was all about accepting history, tolerance and so on, it would be fair to say if anything he would call for unity against racism, nationalism and so on.
- ajTHak 6y ago
  No such thing has been implied, but you are only attacking straw men in this subthread (Dolchstosslegende, really?), European guilt (countries fighting each other since the beginning of time) has been used as a justification for the European Union. German guilt has been used as a justification for the Euro. The theory that average workers benefit from the Euro is false, and usually only propagated by those in cozy government positions, like bureaucrats or teachers who are isolated from reality. > implying that is a right wing thing. And there we go, such a position is literally fascist.

pkynbA 6y ago

Immigration is recent and secondary (but also a factor). The Euro and eastern expansion of the EU came first. The Euro was directly justified with historical references and allegedly a precondition for the German reunification. The Euro made companies rich and the population poor.

gspr 6y ago
> The Euro made companies rich and the population poor. In absolute terms, this is patently false. In relative terms, the outcome may be true, but are you so sure that the euro is to blame?