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Words of warning from a not so young (36) chronic procrastinator with a rather messed up life: Take it seriously. I'm not talking about reading HN in your 7th w

by nisa 6y ago

Words of warning from a not so young (36) chronic procrastinator with a rather messed up life: Take it seriously. I'm not talking about reading HN in your 7th work hour when doing stupid Excel sheets. I'm talking about messing up years and years of your life. I believe it's a symptom of some deeper issues and it won't go away from alone. Lack of sleep, stress, work overload, information overload amplify the effects but once it crept into your life outside of work it really can wreak havoc. Simple things start to become complicated and you are in a constant negative feedback loop. The worst is that you procrastinate not only work but rather your own existence because you'll constantly attempt to catch up but just can't. At the moment doing pomodoro and putting everything in kanban charts and devide&conquer seem to work somewhat. I don't really have any clever advice beyond that, it just sucks.

solinent 6y ago
Diet & exercise have been the cure for me, simple as that.
wpietri 6y ago
Yeah, agreed. For me avoidance of tasks was just the visible problem; the root was avoidance of feelings. I don't really struggle with procrastination much any more, but it took all sorts of work that would have seemed apparently unrelated to me. E.g., a regular sleep schedule is really helpful, and that required an automated lighting system that helps me keep in sync with the sun. Regular cardio helps keep my baseline anxiety level much lower. Meditation, therapy, medication, food choices, and an awful lot of introspection and self-experimentation were necessary. And time, just a lot of time to unwind the bad habits and bad associations. I get that it feels hopeless sometimes, but I hope you'll continue. Note that you can't catch up if your baseline is some arbitrary standard. But the right way to measure it is improvement from where you are now. Then there's no "catching up". There's just today, and whether you're going to make things better by one day's worth.
- 323454 6y ago
  Well said.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  > the root was avoidance of feelings. To put this in perspective, one of the hallmarks of addiction is avoidance of feelings. It's a deeply psychological coping mechanism, and obviously a symptom of a larger problem.
  - wpietri 6y ago
    Yes, exactly. One way I think about procrastination is addiction to the pain relief that comes from distraction.
- giovannibonetti 6y ago
  > E.g., a regular sleep schedule is really helpful, and that required an automated lighting system that helps me keep in sync with the sun. Wouldn't letting the curtains open achieve the same thing?
  - weightless 6y ago
    Depending on your location (urban or rural) having your curtains open could expose other light sources (street or car lights) and make it harder to get to sleep.
  - wpietri 6y ago
    At least where I live, that's not enough light for me, especially in the winter. But if I turn on regular lights when it's too dark, I may leave them on and then blow my sleep schedule.
- indiv0 6y ago
  Would you mind expanding on what this automated lighting system is?
  - violetqed 6y ago
    You can buy a wake up lamp and aim it at your face while you sleep. They automatically turn on at a time you set, and the light intensifies slowly, like the sun. It’s a lot comfier than waking up to a loud noise.
    - wpietri 6y ago
      I bought a Philips light-based alarm clock, which I liked, but it wasn't enough. So I built a whole-house system out of Hue bulbs and custom software: https://github.com/wpietri/sunrise https://github.com/wpietri/sunrise To my surprise, the most valuable part for me was not sunrise but sunset. If the lights auto-dim in the evening, I go to bed on time, which means I wake up on time.
- sockdrawer 6y ago
  > There's just today, and whether you're going to > make things better by one day's worth. So true. The guest post on Ferriss's blog on this is quite good -- https://tim.blog/2009/07/28/the-big-question-are-you-better-than-yesterday/ https://tim.blog/2009/07/28/the-big-question-are-you-better-...
fizixer 6y ago
Procrastination is a symptom and stuff like pomodoro is the band-aid.
- jimmydddd 6y ago
  Agreed. I feel like I manage procrastination with a bunch of band-aids. But I will never not have the tendencies.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Often a band-aid is all what you need to heal, instead of getting the wound infected and making things worse over time.
unethical_ban 6y ago
I hear you. For me, it is a feeling like you said, of never being able to catch up. Like with debt, for years, I would just keep spending on my credit cards. I tried consolidating several times, and finally, I have used a 401k loan against myself to consolidate. My student loans and car loan are paid off, and I have < $10,000 of actual credit debt for the first time since college. When something seems hopeless, or too much to overcome, I think the mind says "fuck it", and wants to escape. I find myself very productive at cleaning when I am on the phone with friends and family. I will pace the house, sweeping or mopping or throwing away papers that need sorted. Why? Because doing it alone is lonely, boring, unfulfilling. I'm lonely. Despite several good friends and family who care about me, I am very lonely for someone to love and care for me in the way I feel I can care for them - I've had love before, though I didn't know it when I was younger. I miss it. With debt finally going away, and with a good job, I at least see the light at the end of that tunnel. I may finally be able to travel more, buy a sailboat, buy a house. I have been more intentional about my spending, that I don't use any credit I can't pay off immediately. See? having hope, seeing that things can be better, really helps. I had to get that out there. TLDR: I procrastinate on doing chores and making hard decisions because it is overwhelming at times, hard to envision the immediate benefit, and so I go a bar to chat with other people who are running from something, too. Fuck, there should be a support group for this.
- _curious_ 6y ago
  "Fuck, there should be a support group for this." Be the change you want to see!
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    At the risk of going completely opposite to what you meant here: I would join such a group if it existed on-line. Hell, I've used HN for that purpose in the past.
- bonchicbongenre 6y ago
  This is a really insightful and heartfelt comment; thank you very much for sharing it. It really resonated with me, and has highlighted problems I really should think about for myself. Thank you
bserge 6y ago
I don't think it's about "avoiding difficult emotions" anymore. You'd think after years of procrastinating and as a result, getting even worse emotions, the brain would learn to not procrastinate in order to avoid unpleasant emotions. Imo, it's a brain malfunction/illness. Some spectrum of ADD, some people being affected more than others. Perhaps it was useful in the millions of years of evolution, but it's counterproductive in a modern society. Which is why I would love for (more) doctors to recognize procrastination/Attention Deficit as a real problem in itself and not just wave it away as a symptom of something else. A real problem for which there is real, working medication, that thousands of people are happy with. But unfortunately due to the nature of these drugs, everyone shies away from it. It's not the perfect solution, but it's a working solution. Medication would've changed my life, but I can not get it. And so I continue wasting hours, days, months and years of my life. Not to mention it causes anxiety and depression, and they continue reinforcing each other, making things much worse.
- philosopher1234 6y ago
  Unless your brain has some sort of trauma associated to whatever you’re avoiding. Brains are flawed. You may never learn without intentional therapy.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    Indeed, Complex PTSD is an example condition that has symptoms that resemble ADHD.
- canjobear 6y ago
  > You'd think after years of procrastinating and as a result, getting even worse emotions, the brain would learn to not procrastinate in order to avoid unpleasant emotions. An alternative is that the reinforcement mechanism in the brain only responds to rewards on a short timescale. The reward from procrastination (not having to face xyz) comes immediately. The punishment from procrastination (your job/life is in shambles) comes months or years later. So you end up adopting a policy of procrastination.
mihaaly 6y ago
It smells like neglecting important things rather than delaying until become acute/urgent (this latter is my definition for procrastination).
- nisa 6y ago
  Actually it started with delaying until it became acute/urgent and lot's of badly executed last-minute shit was created and that's probably okay, but at some point it changed for me - especially during times when you are not well off anyway and that kick to get it done somehow at the last minute doesn't fire anymore. You are just tired and exhausted.
dig1 6y ago
I'd suggest you to check a book "A Mind For Numbers" [1]. You don't have to be science/math guy to read it, and it covers procrastination among other things. What I like about it is that many facts are backed by science research. [1] https://www.amazon.ca/Mind-Numbers-Science-Flunked-Algebra/dp/039916524X https://www.amazon.ca/Mind-Numbers-Science-Flunked-Algebra/d...
- tryauuum 6y ago
  why the downvotes?
slim 6y ago
pomodoro works great against procrastination. it works even better if synchronized over slack/telegram/twitter with peer developers. we call that bloody Mary
mellosouls 6y ago
Thank you for saying that. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
sosuke 6y ago
I haven't been able to find a "final" solution. Most recently I've been writing things down with pen and paper to keep me on task. To make the ethereal physical and break it down into steps and checklists. Again totally recommend this video on the wall of awful for ADHD procrastination https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo08uS904Rg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo08uS904Rg
- shdwbnvdnce 6y ago
  >"final" solution. WTF is up with this Nazi reference?
  - logarhythmic 6y ago
    I doubt it was intentional
    - sosuke 6y ago
      You're right. I'm not sure I want to educate myself on why that might have been Nazi-esque. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.
      - shdwbnvdnce 6y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
      - shadowbanned5 6y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
  - monktastic1 6y ago
    Your green username indicates you're new to HN. Gratuitous swearing and accusing are not really part of the culture here, which is why you're being downvoted. There are already (too) many places on the internet for that sort of behavior.
markus_zhang 6y ago
Yeah. I always feel that I "strategically" messed up my life by: Not having a real passion on pretty much anything, but have small impulses for pretty much EVERYTHING. Means that I wasted a lot of hours/days/weeks but didn't gain much. Plus no experience of major positive feedback makes me less and less confident.
- nicbou 6y ago
  Try reducing the scope of your projects, so that you can ride on your impulses. I find it a lot easier to maintain something I use than a half-completed project, so I try to get there as soon as possible. It worked really well for me.
  - markus_zhang 6y ago
    Yeah I can complete anything if it's someone else request, or at least if I can convince myself it will be used by someone else. But I don't work as a programmer so I don't get a lot of those requests. On the other side, if it's purely from my impulse then I found it difficult to finish it.
    - nicbou 6y ago
      Does it solve a problem you have? My longest-running projects are all in active use. I maintain them because they are useful to me, and update them to fit my needs. It's a lot harder to maintain something for an imaginary customer.
      - markus_zhang 6y ago
        >My longest-running projects are all in active use. I maintain them because they are useful to me, and update them to fit my needs. This makes sense. A lot side projects (that are not for others but just for me) only spinned from semi-interest, not for active use. This could be the reason. Someone has to use it.
eming1 6y ago
A really good book on getting to the emotional root of procrastination is "Procrastination Why you do it, what to do about it now" by Burka & Yuen. It takes a psychoanalytic approach, with a chapter on neuroscience and some practical steps to manage and improve. One fact I found really interesting is that fear is embedded in your brain & body. A fear response is triggered immediately (30ms) even decades after the original incident. Learning to identify and resolve causes of fear can help you lower the barrier to doing your tasks. If we consider procrastination as a barrier preventing you from doing something, you can either up your will power, lower the barrier, or a combination of both. Good luck on your journey!
throwaway_66786 6y ago
> I believe it's a symptom of some deeper issues and it won't go away from alone. [...] Simple things start to become complicated and you are in a constant negative feedback loop. +1 I neglected this, thought that I could force myself to work, instead of seeking help. I did 100h weeks after all, I'd always get stuff done. I quit my job, started looking for more rewarding things to do, finally had time to do things right. And, one day I ended up crying on the floor, hurting myself and spending 3 days on a task that was supposed to take 5-15 minutes. Then a simple coding exercise (2-3h) took me a week, because I couldn't focus, I couldn't accept any solutions because they weren't perfect. I ended up not sending my job application because I lost my shit, even speaking to the recruiter was too intimidating. The whole situation was ridiculous, surreal. I felt embarrassed because I went throught some difficult (arguably waaay more stressful) situations when I was younger and just couldn't cope with the fact that at the age of 32 my brain gave up on a high school grade CS task. It still perplexes me. > At the moment doing pomodoro and putting everything in kanban charts and devide&conquer seem to work somewhat. I don't really have any clever advice beyond that, it just sucks. I'm not sure if you're the same but I used to hate routine. I'm learning to enjoy it now, because I realised that it allows me to deal with the previously neglected parts of my life (exercise, meditation, sleep, food) with less friction. I hate self-help books, but Atomic Habits was surprisingly helpful. I'm still getting to the point where I enjoy things around me (instead of constantly solving problems), but I hope this will go when the lockdown ends. I used to have much, much more control over myself. I feel that what I did to myself was reckless, because now keeping my emotional health at the level allowing me to work can be really hard. I wish I was brought up to care about myself, because now even though I slowed down and made some changes in my life: 1) I don't feel like a better person 2) I'm not better to anyone around me. I'm just tired. I can find a nice 6-figure job, but can't guarantee that I'll be strong enough emotionally to support my partner. Please consider this a warning, so you don't end up like me. Making small changes and taking care of yourself is easier than damage control.
- vlasev 6y ago
  > spending 3 days on a task that was supposed to take 5-15 minutes. Then a simple coding exercise (2-3h) took me a week, because I couldn't focus, I hope I'm not too intrusive, but did you happen to quit some sort of addictive substances before that, like caffeine, nicotine, etc? Did you happen to go through a breakup or something? Or was it a super random, out of the blue kind of thing?
lostmyoldone 6y ago
Tagging this on: If one is a chronic procrastinator and also find the idea that people doesn't think about something exactly all the time to be a very strange thought, it might be worth doing at least an initial evaluation for ADD. ADD/ADHD-PI is kind of a terrible name, but procrastination and a mind that never rests is a combination that while not unique, is quite uncommon outside "ADD type" brains/people. It's not that a diagnosis is going to solve all problems instantly, but it can help avoid depression, burnout, and various secondary issues. For me personally, I would say it brought me back to life. That's why I encourage others, because there was almost nothing left of me when I finally got the help I needed, and maybe I can help someone else take the same step someone once helped me take!
- throwaway713 6y ago
  > find the idea that people doesn't think about something exactly all the time to be a very strange thought I'm not sure I understand; how could one not be thinking about things constantly? If I try to just sit there and think about nothing, it doesn't work. The only time when the thinking has stopped for me is while under anesthesia.
  - jameshush 6y ago
    throwaway713, you can definitely not think about things. I'm no doctor or mental health expert so I'm not sure if thinking all the time is bad... But it _sounds_ bad to me. For me I day dream all the time. I don't think about anything when I play guitar. I don't think about anything when I do the dishes. I don't think about anything when I'm laying in a hammock looking at the sky. I don't really think when I'm exercising outside of "this is hard!". Even when I'm dating someone she'll ask "What are you thinking about?" and more often then not the response is "literally nothing." So yeah, it's definitely possible to not think about things. Maybe it's worth the cash on a therapy session just to double check? https://www.betterhelp.com/ https://www.betterhelp.com/ Is a good source. To me this sounds like the equivalent of a tooth ache for your mental health, better to get it checked now then wait.
- blompa 6y ago
  I came here to say exactly this. I found this article[0] here a few months ago on HN and it dramatically changed my life for the better. I had always thought I was just "easily distracted" and a "natural procrastinator", when in reality I actually had ADHD. Now that I am medicated and it is mind-blowing how my life has changed. I can hold more than one thought in my head at a time, I can get back on track to what I was doing before without forgetting what I was doing, I don't sleep in until 10am anymore and I don't binge eat anymore. Consequently my self-esteem has improved dramatically too. [0] https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html
king_panic 6y ago
You can change. There's a technique called Releasing outlined by David Hawkins in his book Letting Go. I've undergone a metamorphosis since starting this practice. Not 10% better, but life altering, horizon expanding shifts I never thought were possible for me. It's inner work that resolves the feelings that create your outer reality.
- nisten 6y ago
  Alright man, let's try this out. Looked it up on amazon and the book was free with an audible trial. Hope it works. There was one other book, a very short one, it's more like an excercise book really with space for you to write your answers. Has a very "commercial" title I'd say, it's called Self Discipline in 10 days. It's a bit of a psychological rollercoaster and but I did find it pretty effective when I went through it years ago. It will ask you to write down and articulate your biggest failures fears etc.. Try it out :)
- mtsr 6y ago
  I'm not sure about this recommendation. It seems to be unscientific spiritual / new age 'negative energy' type stuff. If you like that, go for it. Otherwise, avoid.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
Pomodoro is magic and should be worshipped. It's the only thing that seems to consistently work for me. When I was so emotionally overwhelmed I couldn't focus and it took me half a day to begin working, I would switch to doing pomodoros and rewarding myself for achieving a certain amount any given day. I tried punishing myself through not achieving too (via Beeminder), but that ended up worsening my emotional negative feedback loop, so I stopped. Over the past decade, with tremendous help of my wife, I've managed to resolve some of my anxiety issues, so these days my main sources of work anxiety are: 1) trying to do a thing I have no first clue how to approach, and 2) the tension between spending time coding for money vs. doing hobby projects. If I do too much of the latter, I don't have money, but if I do too little, I burn out quickly. So I reward my work time with hobby project time. I keep a small pad on which I put a tally mark for each pomodoro spent on working. These tally marks represent pomodoros I can then spend on hobby projects (software on otherwise) guilt-free. This satisfies my emotional self, as I literally work to earn time to spend doing something else. In practice, I end up buffering tally marks and then spending them in batches, this fits well with me being an independent contractor (I can work less today if I worked more yesterday), and also works well for the state of flow: if I have 10 pomodoros buffered up, I can let myself spend them all in 5 hours of continuous hacking. I'd say the key thing here is getting rid of the guilt: I've agreed with myself that as long as I never exceed the accumulated pomodoro budget, I can spend it without feeling bad about not working. (Well, the second big trick was to block HN on my router during work hours; this ensures I actually get to both earn and spend my pomodoros, instead of procrastinating here all day.) (EDIT: Well, the third big trick, one which lets me keep anxiety down, is that I keep running journals - both personal and work - and I dump my train of thoughts straight into them whenever I start feeling even slightly anxious or confused. I almost never read them again, but the act of going through my thoughts in writing calms me down, and lets me pinpoint the sources of anxiety.)
- nisa 6y ago
  Thank you!
- myth2018 6y ago
  +1 for journals. At some point I used to run three: personal, work and one for my masters. I don't know why, but they work way better when hand-written
spurgu 6y ago
> The worst is that you procrastinate not only work but rather your own existence because you'll constantly attempt to catch up but just can't. Idea/suggestion: How about the old "delete all your emails" trick: Sell everything you have. Quit your job. Move to another place. Having said/suggested that, I've done this email trick a couple of times and while it works wonders short term - I stop worrying about those highlighted emails I should do something about that are getting older and older - I tend to just end up in the same situation later. But, having moved around a couple of times, it also does work wonders, as long as you keep focus on the "new you" while everything's fresh.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  I experienced a much minuscule version recently when I accidentally closed a browser window full of tabs. It was like letting go. It felt cleansing.
  - spurgu 6y ago
    I know what you mean. I currently have 10 windows open, each containing various tabs of stuff I've been researching and I can't wait to get them closed off. I would be fine with an accident but unfortunately I'm too smart for my own good and have setup safeguards for that, like having [SessionBuddy](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/session-buddy/edacconmaakjimmfgnblocblbcdcpbko?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/session-buddy/edac...) installed in Chrome (which keeps snapshots of all open tabs and windows with the option of saving/naming/editing windows/sessions).
  - Talanes 6y ago
    Nothing feels better than being 15 tabs deep and finally finding what you were looking for and hitting "Close Other Tabs"
- nicbou 6y ago
  Are you Rick Sanchez? I moved to another country some time ago. To me, it was difficult. Starting your social life from scratch is difficult. Learning a new culture, a new language and a new bureaucracy is difficult. Buying everything again is difficult. Upping the difficulty level doesn't solve your procrastination problem, it exacerbates it. To me, this sounds more like running away from your problems than solving them.
sjg007 6y ago
The answer is to "just get started". Figure out what the immediate next step is and just do that. Don't worry about the rest of it. One step at a time. Joel on Software alludes to this by saying he just needed to open the code editor. I think PG has a similar strategy.
Darmody 6y ago
I'm in the same boat but several years younger. I'm witnessing how I throw my life away and there's nothing I can do. Nothing works.
- dorchadas 6y ago
  If it makes you feel any better, know you're not alone there.
  - Darmody 6y ago
    It doesn't actually. Finding a solution for us would make me feel way better.
halfcat 6y ago
> I don't really have any clever advice beyond that, it just sucks. I found BJ Fogg’s behavior model [0] useful. His model let’s you plot a behavior on a graph. If you create two plots for two behaviors, the one closest to the top-right corner is the one you will do. Procrastination then is just choosing one behavior over another. Doing nothing over doing something. And you can plot it, and then figure out how you can position the levers (there are only 3) to make “something” the chosen behavior over “staring at the wall”. His book Tiny Habits goes into more detail about how you might run this diagnostic process. Atomic Habits is also good here for the actionable changes, but I found Fogg’s simple model to be wickedly effective for wrangling my executive dysfunction. Once you have a habit framework in place, you need a wholistic approach, which I would listen to the 1st question of this Q&A [1] (around 2min mark) for an example of a daily routine (which starts the night before), and in some cases professional help works wonders (therapy, medication, CBT). In terms of rescue from the acute fog-of-anxiety, I use 3 meditation tools that, if I follow them, have never failed. One is a general observe-and-dissipate meditation, something like Sam Harris’s course, to build awareness and the ability to pause life for a brief second so you can inject habit loop triggers. Second is meditation for calm, using modified box breathing to mitigate acute anxiety. In each of the 4 parts of the breath (in, hold, out, hold), wait for the most pleasurable part, and repeat. Something out waiting for the moment of most pleasure is (a) mildly pleasurable and (b) very focusing. Third is the same as the second, but taking a break after each box breath cycle to pause and acknowledge to yourself that you are moving in the right direction. I added this after hearing a neuroscientist talk about hacking the brain’s reward system using this approach: pick any goal (even if it’s short-term counterproductive), take the smallest possible physical step toward that goal, pause and acknowledge your effort toward moving in the right direction, and repeat. The pause-and-acknowledge step triggers a dopamine response, which he said has the effect of buffering or titrating adrenaline, meaning this cycle is energizing and can be sustained for a very long time compared to an acute adrenaline spike and subsequent crash. Once you get forward momentum you can redirect to a better goal, so the initial goal is rather unimportant. Just building the momentum in this dopamine reward cycle overcomes all of the crushing anxiety, negative self-talk, and so forth. [0] https://www.behaviormodel.org/ https://www.behaviormodel.org/ [1] https://impacttheory.libsyn.com/ama-8121-190416-pod-for-post https://impacttheory.libsyn.com/ama-8121-190416-pod-for-post
vlasev 6y ago
I'm not sure if you can echo this, but I've been in negative spirals in the past and the only thing that really helped me get out was to focus ALL my efforts on creating a positive spiral to counter the negative one. It often started with questions like - What is the the thing making me feel the worst at the moment? - What is the largest small thing I can do with my current energy to offset my biggest problem? For example, one time when money was really bad and I knew I'd get some money from tax returns, I focused all my energy (to the exclusion of other things even work) on trying to get it done, which resulted in some money and reducing my pain. This allowed me to re-focus on the next small challenge that I felt I could tackle reasonably well. Sometimes the spiral is so deep and the challenges so multidimensional that it's hard to pick on the right thread of the ball of yarn to start making progress, but it's possible.

by nisa 6y ago

solinent 6y ago

Diet & exercise have been the cure for me, simple as that.

wpietri 6y ago

Yeah, agreed. For me avoidance of tasks was just the visible problem; the root was avoidance of feelings. I don't really struggle with procrastination much any more, but it took all sorts of work that would have seemed apparently unrelated to me. E.g., a regular sleep schedule is really helpful, and that required an automated lighting system that helps me keep in sync with the sun. Regular cardio helps keep my baseline anxiety level much lower. Meditation, therapy, medication, food choices, and an awful lot of introspection and self-experimentation were necessary. And time, just a lot of time to unwind the bad habits and bad associations. I get that it feels hopeless sometimes, but I hope you'll continue. Note that you can't catch up if your baseline is some arbitrary standard. But the right way to measure it is improvement from where you are now. Then there's no "catching up". There's just today, and whether you're going to make things better by one day's worth.

323454 6y ago
Well said.
heavyset_go 6y ago
> the root was avoidance of feelings. To put this in perspective, one of the hallmarks of addiction is avoidance of feelings. It's a deeply psychological coping mechanism, and obviously a symptom of a larger problem.
- wpietri 6y ago
  Yes, exactly. One way I think about procrastination is addiction to the pain relief that comes from distraction.
giovannibonetti 6y ago
> E.g., a regular sleep schedule is really helpful, and that required an automated lighting system that helps me keep in sync with the sun. Wouldn't letting the curtains open achieve the same thing?
- weightless 6y ago
  Depending on your location (urban or rural) having your curtains open could expose other light sources (street or car lights) and make it harder to get to sleep.
- wpietri 6y ago
  At least where I live, that's not enough light for me, especially in the winter. But if I turn on regular lights when it's too dark, I may leave them on and then blow my sleep schedule.
indiv0 6y ago
Would you mind expanding on what this automated lighting system is?
- violetqed 6y ago
  You can buy a wake up lamp and aim it at your face while you sleep. They automatically turn on at a time you set, and the light intensifies slowly, like the sun. It’s a lot comfier than waking up to a loud noise.
  - wpietri 6y ago
    I bought a Philips light-based alarm clock, which I liked, but it wasn't enough. So I built a whole-house system out of Hue bulbs and custom software: https://github.com/wpietri/sunrise https://github.com/wpietri/sunrise To my surprise, the most valuable part for me was not sunrise but sunset. If the lights auto-dim in the evening, I go to bed on time, which means I wake up on time.
sockdrawer 6y ago
> There's just today, and whether you're going to > make things better by one day's worth. So true. The guest post on Ferriss's blog on this is quite good -- https://tim.blog/2009/07/28/the-big-question-are-you-better-than-yesterday/ https://tim.blog/2009/07/28/the-big-question-are-you-better-...

fizixer 6y ago

Procrastination is a symptom and stuff like pomodoro is the band-aid.

jimmydddd 6y ago
Agreed. I feel like I manage procrastination with a bunch of band-aids. But I will never not have the tendencies.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
Often a band-aid is all what you need to heal, instead of getting the wound infected and making things worse over time.

unethical_ban 6y ago

I hear you. For me, it is a feeling like you said, of never being able to catch up. Like with debt, for years, I would just keep spending on my credit cards. I tried consolidating several times, and finally, I have used a 401k loan against myself to consolidate. My student loans and car loan are paid off, and I have < $10,000 of actual credit debt for the first time since college. When something seems hopeless, or too much to overcome, I think the mind says "fuck it", and wants to escape. I find myself very productive at cleaning when I am on the phone with friends and family. I will pace the house, sweeping or mopping or throwing away papers that need sorted. Why? Because doing it alone is lonely, boring, unfulfilling. I'm lonely. Despite several good friends and family who care about me, I am very lonely for someone to love and care for me in the way I feel I can care for them - I've had love before, though I didn't know it when I was younger. I miss it. With debt finally going away, and with a good job, I at least see the light at the end of that tunnel. I may finally be able to travel more, buy a sailboat, buy a house. I have been more intentional about my spending, that I don't use any credit I can't pay off immediately. See? having hope, seeing that things can be better, really helps. I had to get that out there. TLDR: I procrastinate on doing chores and making hard decisions because it is overwhelming at times, hard to envision the immediate benefit, and so I go a bar to chat with other people who are running from something, too. Fuck, there should be a support group for this.

_curious_ 6y ago
"Fuck, there should be a support group for this." Be the change you want to see!
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  At the risk of going completely opposite to what you meant here: I would join such a group if it existed on-line. Hell, I've used HN for that purpose in the past.
bonchicbongenre 6y ago
This is a really insightful and heartfelt comment; thank you very much for sharing it. It really resonated with me, and has highlighted problems I really should think about for myself. Thank you

bserge 6y ago

I don't think it's about "avoiding difficult emotions" anymore. You'd think after years of procrastinating and as a result, getting even worse emotions, the brain would learn to not procrastinate in order to avoid unpleasant emotions. Imo, it's a brain malfunction/illness. Some spectrum of ADD, some people being affected more than others. Perhaps it was useful in the millions of years of evolution, but it's counterproductive in a modern society. Which is why I would love for (more) doctors to recognize procrastination/Attention Deficit as a real problem in itself and not just wave it away as a symptom of something else. A real problem for which there is real, working medication, that thousands of people are happy with. But unfortunately due to the nature of these drugs, everyone shies away from it. It's not the perfect solution, but it's a working solution. Medication would've changed my life, but I can not get it. And so I continue wasting hours, days, months and years of my life. Not to mention it causes anxiety and depression, and they continue reinforcing each other, making things much worse.

philosopher1234 6y ago
Unless your brain has some sort of trauma associated to whatever you’re avoiding. Brains are flawed. You may never learn without intentional therapy.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  Indeed, Complex PTSD is an example condition that has symptoms that resemble ADHD.
canjobear 6y ago
> You'd think after years of procrastinating and as a result, getting even worse emotions, the brain would learn to not procrastinate in order to avoid unpleasant emotions. An alternative is that the reinforcement mechanism in the brain only responds to rewards on a short timescale. The reward from procrastination (not having to face xyz) comes immediately. The punishment from procrastination (your job/life is in shambles) comes months or years later. So you end up adopting a policy of procrastination.

mihaaly 6y ago

It smells like neglecting important things rather than delaying until become acute/urgent (this latter is my definition for procrastination).

nisa 6y ago
Actually it started with delaying until it became acute/urgent and lot's of badly executed last-minute shit was created and that's probably okay, but at some point it changed for me - especially during times when you are not well off anyway and that kick to get it done somehow at the last minute doesn't fire anymore. You are just tired and exhausted.

dig1 6y ago

I'd suggest you to check a book "A Mind For Numbers" [1]. You don't have to be science/math guy to read it, and it covers procrastination among other things. What I like about it is that many facts are backed by science research. [1] https://www.amazon.ca/Mind-Numbers-Science-Flunked-Algebra/dp/039916524X https://www.amazon.ca/Mind-Numbers-Science-Flunked-Algebra/d...

tryauuum 6y ago
why the downvotes?

slim 6y ago

pomodoro works great against procrastination. it works even better if synchronized over slack/telegram/twitter with peer developers. we call that bloody Mary

mellosouls 6y ago

Thank you for saying that. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

sosuke 6y ago

I haven't been able to find a "final" solution. Most recently I've been writing things down with pen and paper to keep me on task. To make the ethereal physical and break it down into steps and checklists. Again totally recommend this video on the wall of awful for ADHD procrastination https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo08uS904Rg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo08uS904Rg

shdwbnvdnce 6y ago
>"final" solution. WTF is up with this Nazi reference?
- logarhythmic 6y ago
  I doubt it was intentional
  - sosuke 6y ago
    You're right. I'm not sure I want to educate myself on why that might have been Nazi-esque. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.
    - shdwbnvdnce 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
    - shadowbanned5 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
- monktastic1 6y ago
  Your green username indicates you're new to HN. Gratuitous swearing and accusing are not really part of the culture here, which is why you're being downvoted. There are already (too) many places on the internet for that sort of behavior.

markus_zhang 6y ago

Yeah. I always feel that I "strategically" messed up my life by: Not having a real passion on pretty much anything, but have small impulses for pretty much EVERYTHING. Means that I wasted a lot of hours/days/weeks but didn't gain much. Plus no experience of major positive feedback makes me less and less confident.

nicbou 6y ago
Try reducing the scope of your projects, so that you can ride on your impulses. I find it a lot easier to maintain something I use than a half-completed project, so I try to get there as soon as possible. It worked really well for me.
- markus_zhang 6y ago
  Yeah I can complete anything if it's someone else request, or at least if I can convince myself it will be used by someone else. But I don't work as a programmer so I don't get a lot of those requests. On the other side, if it's purely from my impulse then I found it difficult to finish it.
  - nicbou 6y ago
    Does it solve a problem you have? My longest-running projects are all in active use. I maintain them because they are useful to me, and update them to fit my needs. It's a lot harder to maintain something for an imaginary customer.
    - markus_zhang 6y ago
      >My longest-running projects are all in active use. I maintain them because they are useful to me, and update them to fit my needs. This makes sense. A lot side projects (that are not for others but just for me) only spinned from semi-interest, not for active use. This could be the reason. Someone has to use it.

eming1 6y ago

A really good book on getting to the emotional root of procrastination is "Procrastination Why you do it, what to do about it now" by Burka & Yuen. It takes a psychoanalytic approach, with a chapter on neuroscience and some practical steps to manage and improve. One fact I found really interesting is that fear is embedded in your brain & body. A fear response is triggered immediately (30ms) even decades after the original incident. Learning to identify and resolve causes of fear can help you lower the barrier to doing your tasks. If we consider procrastination as a barrier preventing you from doing something, you can either up your will power, lower the barrier, or a combination of both. Good luck on your journey!

throwaway_66786 6y ago

> I believe it's a symptom of some deeper issues and it won't go away from alone. [...] Simple things start to become complicated and you are in a constant negative feedback loop. +1 I neglected this, thought that I could force myself to work, instead of seeking help. I did 100h weeks after all, I'd always get stuff done. I quit my job, started looking for more rewarding things to do, finally had time to do things right. And, one day I ended up crying on the floor, hurting myself and spending 3 days on a task that was supposed to take 5-15 minutes. Then a simple coding exercise (2-3h) took me a week, because I couldn't focus, I couldn't accept any solutions because they weren't perfect. I ended up not sending my job application because I lost my shit, even speaking to the recruiter was too intimidating. The whole situation was ridiculous, surreal. I felt embarrassed because I went throught some difficult (arguably waaay more stressful) situations when I was younger and just couldn't cope with the fact that at the age of 32 my brain gave up on a high school grade CS task. It still perplexes me. > At the moment doing pomodoro and putting everything in kanban charts and devide&conquer seem to work somewhat. I don't really have any clever advice beyond that, it just sucks. I'm not sure if you're the same but I used to hate routine. I'm learning to enjoy it now, because I realised that it allows me to deal with the previously neglected parts of my life (exercise, meditation, sleep, food) with less friction. I hate self-help books, but Atomic Habits was surprisingly helpful. I'm still getting to the point where I enjoy things around me (instead of constantly solving problems), but I hope this will go when the lockdown ends. I used to have much, much more control over myself. I feel that what I did to myself was reckless, because now keeping my emotional health at the level allowing me to work can be really hard. I wish I was brought up to care about myself, because now even though I slowed down and made some changes in my life: 1) I don't feel like a better person 2) I'm not better to anyone around me. I'm just tired. I can find a nice 6-figure job, but can't guarantee that I'll be strong enough emotionally to support my partner. Please consider this a warning, so you don't end up like me. Making small changes and taking care of yourself is easier than damage control.

vlasev 6y ago
> spending 3 days on a task that was supposed to take 5-15 minutes. Then a simple coding exercise (2-3h) took me a week, because I couldn't focus, I hope I'm not too intrusive, but did you happen to quit some sort of addictive substances before that, like caffeine, nicotine, etc? Did you happen to go through a breakup or something? Or was it a super random, out of the blue kind of thing?

lostmyoldone 6y ago

Tagging this on: If one is a chronic procrastinator and also find the idea that people doesn't think about something exactly all the time to be a very strange thought, it might be worth doing at least an initial evaluation for ADD. ADD/ADHD-PI is kind of a terrible name, but procrastination and a mind that never rests is a combination that while not unique, is quite uncommon outside "ADD type" brains/people. It's not that a diagnosis is going to solve all problems instantly, but it can help avoid depression, burnout, and various secondary issues. For me personally, I would say it brought me back to life. That's why I encourage others, because there was almost nothing left of me when I finally got the help I needed, and maybe I can help someone else take the same step someone once helped me take!

throwaway713 6y ago
> find the idea that people doesn't think about something exactly all the time to be a very strange thought I'm not sure I understand; how could one not be thinking about things constantly? If I try to just sit there and think about nothing, it doesn't work. The only time when the thinking has stopped for me is while under anesthesia.
- jameshush 6y ago
  throwaway713, you can definitely not think about things. I'm no doctor or mental health expert so I'm not sure if thinking all the time is bad... But it _sounds_ bad to me. For me I day dream all the time. I don't think about anything when I play guitar. I don't think about anything when I do the dishes. I don't think about anything when I'm laying in a hammock looking at the sky. I don't really think when I'm exercising outside of "this is hard!". Even when I'm dating someone she'll ask "What are you thinking about?" and more often then not the response is "literally nothing." So yeah, it's definitely possible to not think about things. Maybe it's worth the cash on a therapy session just to double check? https://www.betterhelp.com/ https://www.betterhelp.com/ Is a good source. To me this sounds like the equivalent of a tooth ache for your mental health, better to get it checked now then wait.
blompa 6y ago
I came here to say exactly this. I found this article[0] here a few months ago on HN and it dramatically changed my life for the better. I had always thought I was just "easily distracted" and a "natural procrastinator", when in reality I actually had ADHD. Now that I am medicated and it is mind-blowing how my life has changed. I can hold more than one thought in my head at a time, I can get back on track to what I was doing before without forgetting what I was doing, I don't sleep in until 10am anymore and I don't binge eat anymore. Consequently my self-esteem has improved dramatically too. [0] https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html

king_panic 6y ago

You can change. There's a technique called Releasing outlined by David Hawkins in his book Letting Go. I've undergone a metamorphosis since starting this practice. Not 10% better, but life altering, horizon expanding shifts I never thought were possible for me. It's inner work that resolves the feelings that create your outer reality.

nisten 6y ago
Alright man, let's try this out. Looked it up on amazon and the book was free with an audible trial. Hope it works. There was one other book, a very short one, it's more like an excercise book really with space for you to write your answers. Has a very "commercial" title I'd say, it's called Self Discipline in 10 days. It's a bit of a psychological rollercoaster and but I did find it pretty effective when I went through it years ago. It will ask you to write down and articulate your biggest failures fears etc.. Try it out :)
mtsr 6y ago
I'm not sure about this recommendation. It seems to be unscientific spiritual / new age 'negative energy' type stuff. If you like that, go for it. Otherwise, avoid.

TeMPOraL 6y ago

Pomodoro is magic and should be worshipped. It's the only thing that seems to consistently work for me. When I was so emotionally overwhelmed I couldn't focus and it took me half a day to begin working, I would switch to doing pomodoros and rewarding myself for achieving a certain amount any given day. I tried punishing myself through not achieving too (via Beeminder), but that ended up worsening my emotional negative feedback loop, so I stopped. Over the past decade, with tremendous help of my wife, I've managed to resolve some of my anxiety issues, so these days my main sources of work anxiety are: 1) trying to do a thing I have no first clue how to approach, and 2) the tension between spending time coding for money vs. doing hobby projects. If I do too much of the latter, I don't have money, but if I do too little, I burn out quickly. So I reward my work time with hobby project time. I keep a small pad on which I put a tally mark for each pomodoro spent on working. These tally marks represent pomodoros I can then spend on hobby projects (software on otherwise) guilt-free. This satisfies my emotional self, as I literally work to earn time to spend doing something else. In practice, I end up buffering tally marks and then spending them in batches, this fits well with me being an independent contractor (I can work less today if I worked more yesterday), and also works well for the state of flow: if I have 10 pomodoros buffered up, I can let myself spend them all in 5 hours of continuous hacking. I'd say the key thing here is getting rid of the guilt: I've agreed with myself that as long as I never exceed the accumulated pomodoro budget, I can spend it without feeling bad about not working. (Well, the second big trick was to block HN on my router during work hours; this ensures I actually get to both earn and spend my pomodoros, instead of procrastinating here all day.) (EDIT: Well, the third big trick, one which lets me keep anxiety down, is that I keep running journals - both personal and work - and I dump my train of thoughts straight into them whenever I start feeling even slightly anxious or confused. I almost never read them again, but the act of going through my thoughts in writing calms me down, and lets me pinpoint the sources of anxiety.)

nisa 6y ago
Thank you!
myth2018 6y ago
+1 for journals. At some point I used to run three: personal, work and one for my masters. I don't know why, but they work way better when hand-written

spurgu 6y ago

> The worst is that you procrastinate not only work but rather your own existence because you'll constantly attempt to catch up but just can't. Idea/suggestion: How about the old "delete all your emails" trick: Sell everything you have. Quit your job. Move to another place. Having said/suggested that, I've done this email trick a couple of times and while it works wonders short term - I stop worrying about those highlighted emails I should do something about that are getting older and older - I tend to just end up in the same situation later. But, having moved around a couple of times, it also does work wonders, as long as you keep focus on the "new you" while everything's fresh.

Apocryphon 6y ago
I experienced a much minuscule version recently when I accidentally closed a browser window full of tabs. It was like letting go. It felt cleansing.
- spurgu 6y ago
  I know what you mean. I currently have 10 windows open, each containing various tabs of stuff I've been researching and I can't wait to get them closed off. I would be fine with an accident but unfortunately I'm too smart for my own good and have setup safeguards for that, like having [SessionBuddy](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/session-buddy/edacconmaakjimmfgnblocblbcdcpbko?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/session-buddy/edac...) installed in Chrome (which keeps snapshots of all open tabs and windows with the option of saving/naming/editing windows/sessions).
- Talanes 6y ago
  Nothing feels better than being 15 tabs deep and finally finding what you were looking for and hitting "Close Other Tabs"
nicbou 6y ago
Are you Rick Sanchez? I moved to another country some time ago. To me, it was difficult. Starting your social life from scratch is difficult. Learning a new culture, a new language and a new bureaucracy is difficult. Buying everything again is difficult. Upping the difficulty level doesn't solve your procrastination problem, it exacerbates it. To me, this sounds more like running away from your problems than solving them.

sjg007 6y ago

The answer is to "just get started". Figure out what the immediate next step is and just do that. Don't worry about the rest of it. One step at a time. Joel on Software alludes to this by saying he just needed to open the code editor. I think PG has a similar strategy.

Darmody 6y ago

I'm in the same boat but several years younger. I'm witnessing how I throw my life away and there's nothing I can do. Nothing works.

dorchadas 6y ago
If it makes you feel any better, know you're not alone there.
- Darmody 6y ago
  It doesn't actually. Finding a solution for us would make me feel way better.

halfcat 6y ago

> I don't really have any clever advice beyond that, it just sucks. I found BJ Fogg’s behavior model [0] useful. His model let’s you plot a behavior on a graph. If you create two plots for two behaviors, the one closest to the top-right corner is the one you will do. Procrastination then is just choosing one behavior over another. Doing nothing over doing something. And you can plot it, and then figure out how you can position the levers (there are only 3) to make “something” the chosen behavior over “staring at the wall”. His book Tiny Habits goes into more detail about how you might run this diagnostic process. Atomic Habits is also good here for the actionable changes, but I found Fogg’s simple model to be wickedly effective for wrangling my executive dysfunction. Once you have a habit framework in place, you need a wholistic approach, which I would listen to the 1st question of this Q&A [1] (around 2min mark) for an example of a daily routine (which starts the night before), and in some cases professional help works wonders (therapy, medication, CBT). In terms of rescue from the acute fog-of-anxiety, I use 3 meditation tools that, if I follow them, have never failed. One is a general observe-and-dissipate meditation, something like Sam Harris’s course, to build awareness and the ability to pause life for a brief second so you can inject habit loop triggers. Second is meditation for calm, using modified box breathing to mitigate acute anxiety. In each of the 4 parts of the breath (in, hold, out, hold), wait for the most pleasurable part, and repeat. Something out waiting for the moment of most pleasure is (a) mildly pleasurable and (b) very focusing. Third is the same as the second, but taking a break after each box breath cycle to pause and acknowledge to yourself that you are moving in the right direction. I added this after hearing a neuroscientist talk about hacking the brain’s reward system using this approach: pick any goal (even if it’s short-term counterproductive), take the smallest possible physical step toward that goal, pause and acknowledge your effort toward moving in the right direction, and repeat. The pause-and-acknowledge step triggers a dopamine response, which he said has the effect of buffering or titrating adrenaline, meaning this cycle is energizing and can be sustained for a very long time compared to an acute adrenaline spike and subsequent crash. Once you get forward momentum you can redirect to a better goal, so the initial goal is rather unimportant. Just building the momentum in this dopamine reward cycle overcomes all of the crushing anxiety, negative self-talk, and so forth. [0] https://www.behaviormodel.org/ https://www.behaviormodel.org/ [1] https://impacttheory.libsyn.com/ama-8121-190416-pod-for-post https://impacttheory.libsyn.com/ama-8121-190416-pod-for-post

vlasev 6y ago

I'm not sure if you can echo this, but I've been in negative spirals in the past and the only thing that really helped me get out was to focus ALL my efforts on creating a positive spiral to counter the negative one. It often started with questions like - What is the the thing making me feel the worst at the moment? - What is the largest small thing I can do with my current energy to offset my biggest problem? For example, one time when money was really bad and I knew I'd get some money from tax returns, I focused all my energy (to the exclusion of other things even work) on trying to get it done, which resulted in some money and reducing my pain. This allowed me to re-focus on the next small challenge that I felt I could tackle reasonably well. Sometimes the spiral is so deep and the challenges so multidimensional that it's hard to pick on the right thread of the ball of yarn to start making progress, but it's possible.