4 ms·

Highly anecdotal, but 100% of the software devs I know in this position (living paycheck to paycheck) are living above their means, in a city. If they moved to

Highly anecdotal, but 100% of the software devs I know in this position (living paycheck to paycheck) are living above their means, in a city. If they moved to the countryside (in another country if need be), they would have to work 2 months a year with the same pay with a larger house, garden, savings etc. After covid it is actually easy to do, but before as well if you are not completely horrible at your job. However, they are never going to do it; they need to live where they live for some reason. In that case; I do not get it. Moving is easy, at least in the EU. They could own their house (there are many houses for sale in villages and country across the EU for 50-100k with garden etc so even in a tight city wage you can immediately own and rapidly pay off a house) and suddenly save money. But then again, I am not attached to places and especially not cities (finally a lucky bet with covid) so maybe I just do not get it.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
I feel like your version of reality is different to the one most people live in. Highly skilled people live in big expensive cities because that's where the best jobs and most professional and social opportunities are. Once you move to the countryside your jobs and networking opportunities plummet and you'll have to endure a soul crushing commute unless you work remotely or your house and your job are close to train stations on the same route, not to mention, at least in Austria, shit internet. People want to live with or interact with like minded people and it's much easier to find what your looking for in a big city. The countryside is lonelier and more conservative. Sure, you can have a lot of space and a garden, but not everyone is into that and most would prefer to have the amenities of a city: sports gyms, cinemas, cafes, bars, meetups, good doctors without having to drive everywhere or wait for a train.
- tluyben2 6y ago
  Sure, my point is, then you have to suck up the fact that you live from paycheck to paycheck (which was what I was responding to). You don't need to but you choose to, that's fine. And nah, never had this much work, my network is only growing (and I have not lived in a city for 20 years), I don't need to commute because remote work is great (for the past 25 years). I meet plenty of like minded people on the internet; for me that works. Not saying it's for anyone, but it works for me (and my family and friends by the way). But yeah, everyone should do what they want and like; just saying there are alternatives if you don't want to live from paycheck to paycheck and live in a city.
cmrdporcupine 6y ago
Hah I live above my means and need a high salary _because_ I moved out into the countryside. Maybe it's different where you are, but living in the country is expensive. It won't look like it from the outside, but ... My home insurance, my heating, my Internet, my electricity, all cost more than if I was urban. I own and maintain my own water supply and sewer system (septic). I have power lines coming up from the road, over a hedge of cedars that cost me $2000 to trim every few years or they'll impede the power lines. On my property, so mine to deal with. I had to buy a little diesel tractor ($15,000), I had to buy a zero turn mower ($5000) because mowing 2.5acres (out of the 6 acres I have) would take forever otherwise. We need two cars because of where we are. And property taxes are super high for me. They'd be cheaper if this was an active farm business making over $7000 CAD a year, but it's not. Because how could I do that while also working a full time job? And yeah, the commute. Not fun. No gas costs really because I drive electric and plug in at work (and home), but still. But I have chickens and an orchard and a woodworking shop, and make wine from my own vineyard, and have room in the garage for a Saab 900 SPG that I will restore...someday... and my kids have lots of yard to look out at while they sit inside instead and watch videos of people playing video games ...
- tluyben2 6y ago
  I guess we live a similar life but in a different country (Canada vs Portugal?) which probably accounts for the difference. All those things you say are true but they just don't cost anything here and, besides that, it's mostly alway warm so those costs we don't have. I don't commute as I have forever worked from home (with rising salary, also forever). We have chickens, many (fruit)trees, make beer, cider and wine. Outside gym. Pizza oven. It's great.
  - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
    yeah, it's partially because i still need to be able to commute to work, so I have to be within the greater toronto/hamilton region, which is really expensive.
    - tluyben2 6y ago

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

I feel like your version of reality is different to the one most people live in. Highly skilled people live in big expensive cities because that's where the best jobs and most professional and social opportunities are. Once you move to the countryside your jobs and networking opportunities plummet and you'll have to endure a soul crushing commute unless you work remotely or your house and your job are close to train stations on the same route, not to mention, at least in Austria, shit internet. People want to live with or interact with like minded people and it's much easier to find what your looking for in a big city. The countryside is lonelier and more conservative. Sure, you can have a lot of space and a garden, but not everyone is into that and most would prefer to have the amenities of a city: sports gyms, cinemas, cafes, bars, meetups, good doctors without having to drive everywhere or wait for a train.

tluyben2 6y ago
Sure, my point is, then you have to suck up the fact that you live from paycheck to paycheck (which was what I was responding to). You don't need to but you choose to, that's fine. And nah, never had this much work, my network is only growing (and I have not lived in a city for 20 years), I don't need to commute because remote work is great (for the past 25 years). I meet plenty of like minded people on the internet; for me that works. Not saying it's for anyone, but it works for me (and my family and friends by the way). But yeah, everyone should do what they want and like; just saying there are alternatives if you don't want to live from paycheck to paycheck and live in a city.

cmrdporcupine 6y ago

Hah I live above my means and need a high salary _because_ I moved out into the countryside. Maybe it's different where you are, but living in the country is expensive. It won't look like it from the outside, but ... My home insurance, my heating, my Internet, my electricity, all cost more than if I was urban. I own and maintain my own water supply and sewer system (septic). I have power lines coming up from the road, over a hedge of cedars that cost me $2000 to trim every few years or they'll impede the power lines. On my property, so mine to deal with. I had to buy a little diesel tractor ($15,000), I had to buy a zero turn mower ($5000) because mowing 2.5acres (out of the 6 acres I have) would take forever otherwise. We need two cars because of where we are. And property taxes are super high for me. They'd be cheaper if this was an active farm business making over $7000 CAD a year, but it's not. Because how could I do that while also working a full time job? And yeah, the commute. Not fun. No gas costs really because I drive electric and plug in at work (and home), but still. But I have chickens and an orchard and a woodworking shop, and make wine from my own vineyard, and have room in the garage for a Saab 900 SPG that I will restore...someday... and my kids have lots of yard to look out at while they sit inside instead and watch videos of people playing video games ...

tluyben2 6y ago
I guess we live a similar life but in a different country (Canada vs Portugal?) which probably accounts for the difference. All those things you say are true but they just don't cost anything here and, besides that, it's mostly alway warm so those costs we don't have. I don't commute as I have forever worked from home (with rising salary, also forever). We have chickens, many (fruit)trees, make beer, cider and wine. Outside gym. Pizza oven. It's great.
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  yeah, it's partially because i still need to be able to commute to work, so I have to be within the greater toronto/hamilton region, which is really expensive.
  - tluyben2 6y ago