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I'm a Canadian who went to an ivy for undergrad, and have always found the American attachment to the SAT a bit puzzling. I'm also puzzled at the widespread vie

I'm a Canadian who went to an ivy for undergrad, and have always found the American attachment to the SAT a bit puzzling. I'm also puzzled at the widespread view that by removing the SAT some grave injustice or lowering in standards is inevitable. Canadian universities manage to admit students mostly just based on high school grades just fine. (Yes, there are provincial final exams but those scores often are not available for admissions since they're taken in the 12th grade). The SAT itself was an odd exam for me, unlike anything I ever had to take in Canada. The SAT IIs (and AP/IB exams) on the other hand seemed like they assessed things more reasonably. The SAT's heritage as a poor attempt at an IQ test which then morphed into whatever the heck it is today, makes its utility somewhat out of place compared to what most other countries do. One issue that's brought up is heterogeneity in high school grading practices, but somehow Canada manages. In any case, for "elite" schools, what has always helped the typical middle / upper-middle class applicants are AP scores (if you have a few) and of course SAT IIs as well.

laser 6y ago
The most competitive universities in Canada, like McGill and UBC have 46% and 52% acceptance rates. Canada has more of a culture of going to college in the province you grew up. To compare that to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, etc. that have sub-10% admittance rates and have to review tens of thousands of applications is failing to realize the scope of the problem these schools face in selecting students.
- contemporary343 6y ago
  I'm very familiar with the scope of the admissions challenge and it's not really an issue of number of applicants. Most universities already have an understanding of different high schools (though often biased to wealthier communities). As for Canada, specific programs at Canadian schools can be quite selective - for example EngSci at the University of Toronto has a ~10% admission rate. Other programs are more like state schools in the US. Most elite schools in the US are still pretty regional heavy. For example 35% of Stanford undergrads are from CA and something like 30-40% of Harvard undergrads are from New England and the mid-atlantic.
  - stormtroper1721 6y ago
    Can confirm, some programs and unis are very selective with very low acceptance rates but the average student doesn’t usually have too much trouble getting into a relatively good program without having to do standardized tests
geomark 6y ago
So Canadian universties don't admit homeschoolers since there are no high school grades?
- stormtroper1721 6y ago
  Nope most do, I’m a homeschooled student and I got accepted into both UofT’s engsci and Uwaterloo software eng without a high school diploma. they consider you on a case by case basis and recommend/require that you take 5-6 grade 12 courses that you can take at a school or through distance learning. Other standardized tests like the Sat and ap exams are also recommended
samfisher83 6y ago
What do you do when a large chunk of the people that apply have a 4.0? How do you determine which person who got a 4.0 gets into your school. I know quite a few people who had a 4.0 + Close to perfect sat score + pretty good extra curricular not get in. If you are Indian getting into an ivy league school is largely luck. Does the admissions officer reading you essay like what you wrote. Does one of your extra circulars stand out.
neilparikh 6y ago
The Canadian admission system and the American system is very different to start with. In Waterloo Engineering (and presumably other schools as well), they take your high school marks, add some adjustment factor for your extracurriculars and essays, and then pick the top N students. In top US schools, they practice holistic admissions, which means they pick N students from the applicants, without specifying an explicit ranking system. In the first case, an applicant can be relatively aware of where they stand based on the marks they apply with, and they know that the process used to select will be mostly transparent. In the second case, from the applicant's perspective, it's pretty much a black box as to what the outcomes will be. When one of only 2 predictable parts (SAT scores and grades) are removed, I think it's understandable that there's some concern.

laser 6y ago

The most competitive universities in Canada, like McGill and UBC have 46% and 52% acceptance rates. Canada has more of a culture of going to college in the province you grew up. To compare that to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, etc. that have sub-10% admittance rates and have to review tens of thousands of applications is failing to realize the scope of the problem these schools face in selecting students.

contemporary343 6y ago
I'm very familiar with the scope of the admissions challenge and it's not really an issue of number of applicants. Most universities already have an understanding of different high schools (though often biased to wealthier communities). As for Canada, specific programs at Canadian schools can be quite selective - for example EngSci at the University of Toronto has a ~10% admission rate. Other programs are more like state schools in the US. Most elite schools in the US are still pretty regional heavy. For example 35% of Stanford undergrads are from CA and something like 30-40% of Harvard undergrads are from New England and the mid-atlantic.
- stormtroper1721 6y ago
  Can confirm, some programs and unis are very selective with very low acceptance rates but the average student doesn’t usually have too much trouble getting into a relatively good program without having to do standardized tests

geomark 6y ago

So Canadian universties don't admit homeschoolers since there are no high school grades?

stormtroper1721 6y ago
Nope most do, I’m a homeschooled student and I got accepted into both UofT’s engsci and Uwaterloo software eng without a high school diploma. they consider you on a case by case basis and recommend/require that you take 5-6 grade 12 courses that you can take at a school or through distance learning. Other standardized tests like the Sat and ap exams are also recommended

samfisher83 6y ago

What do you do when a large chunk of the people that apply have a 4.0? How do you determine which person who got a 4.0 gets into your school. I know quite a few people who had a 4.0 + Close to perfect sat score + pretty good extra curricular not get in. If you are Indian getting into an ivy league school is largely luck. Does the admissions officer reading you essay like what you wrote. Does one of your extra circulars stand out.

neilparikh 6y ago

The Canadian admission system and the American system is very different to start with. In Waterloo Engineering (and presumably other schools as well), they take your high school marks, add some adjustment factor for your extracurriculars and essays, and then pick the top N students. In top US schools, they practice holistic admissions, which means they pick N students from the applicants, without specifying an explicit ranking system. In the first case, an applicant can be relatively aware of where they stand based on the marks they apply with, and they know that the process used to select will be mostly transparent. In the second case, from the applicant's perspective, it's pretty much a black box as to what the outcomes will be. When one of only 2 predictable parts (SAT scores and grades) are removed, I think it's understandable that there's some concern.