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> That's a function of battery size. The maximum battery size of the current Kona, Niro, and Soul is 64 kWh. Batteries cost money. The Kona, Niro, and Soul are
by SEJeff 6y ago
> That's a function of battery size. The maximum battery size of the current Kona, Niro, and Soul is 64 kWh. Batteries cost money. The Kona, Niro, and Soul are all less expensive than the top end Teslas.
The Model 3 LR battery size is 75 kWh. Are you telling me a 9 kWh difference say ~15% is the sole reason for an almost 25% increase in range? If it is only a matter of the battery size, the range would be linear. It is a function of battery size, total mass, and efficiency. A more or less efficient heat pump is absolutely a defining part of this equation, especially in the cold, as the press release you linked stated. It is why the longer, wider, and taller Model Y has only slightly less range than the Model 3 when it should have less due to aerodynamics and increased mass.
> Not the current model.
Sorry, you are right. The 2020 Kia Soul EV range is 243 miles. The google card result is out of date.
> Sure there is. Tesla used to be the #1 BEV maker in Europe. Now they're #3. That's competition for you:
I was referring to competition when it comes to overall efficiency and range. The ID.3 and any EVs built on VW's EV chassis are the closest competition to Tesla has in that area. When it comes to price, it isn't hard to beat Tesla so you're right on this, but I wasn't being specific enough.
> But none of this answers the original question. In what way is Tesla's heat pump better than Hyundai's?
This segment dives much deeper into the octovalve / heat pump for you to see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGffUODWWSE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGffUODWWSE and this podcast has both Sandy Munro and Elon Musk discussing the design in depth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pih4kU6yvz8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pih4kU6yvz8
Tesla heat pump patent (with diagrams): https://patents.google.com/patent/US20190070924A1/en?oq=US20190070924A1 https://patents.google.com/patent/US20190070924A1/en?oq=US20...
Kia / Hundai heat pump patent (with diagrams): https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160009161A1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160009161A1/en
TL;DNR: look at the diagrams from the Tesla vs the Kia / Hundai patents. The Tesla pump combines the heating and cooling for the cabin interior, battery, drive drain, inverters, and motors into a single package with a closed heating loop. It does it in an entirely novel "printed circuit board design" that uses zero tubes.
The Hundai / Kia approach is more industry standard and much simpler. By being less ambitious, it is not as efficient overall as they still need separate heating / cooling systems for the battery, and/or separate cooling systems for the motors plus drive train.
It isn't a real apples to apples comparison, which is what I meant when I said there is no competition. This sort of thing, or things like the use of Inconel, a super-alloy not seen in any other automotive manufacturer, in the Model S and X. Inconel is usually used for orbital class rockets like the SpaceX Merlin Engine Manifold or United Launch Alliance's new rocket engines. Or the use of the IDRA gigapress (first the OL 5500 CS for the Model Y in 2019. Later, it was upgrade to the OL 6100 CS. https://www.idragroup.com/index.php/en/solutions/machines/gigapress https://www.idragroup.com/index.php/en/solutions/machines/gi...), the worlds largest aluminum die cast machine for the underbody of the Model Y. When it was first done with the rear part of the Y body it was the first in the entire industry and created two parts. They've managed to get it down to a single piece with the upgraded OL 6100 CS. There is no one in the industry doing this. All of this ontop of Tesla creating their own Aluminum alloy using metallurgists on loan from SpaceX, who use a proprietary aluminum alloy for the Falcon 9 rocket body.
- clouddrover 6y ago> The Model 3 LR battery size is 75 kWh. Are you telling me a 9 kWh difference say ~15% is the sole reason for an almost 25% increase in range? No, I'm telling you you're comparing paper miles instead of real world miles. Here's a real world range test of the Kia Niro 64 kWh and the Model 3 LR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH7V2tU3iFc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH7V2tU3iFc The Model 3's extra 11 kWh only bought it an extra 15 miles. It achieved 78% of its WLTP range. The Niro delivered 90% of its WLTP range. > By being less ambitious, it is not as efficient overall All you've really said is that Tesla's heat pump is a different design, not demonstrated that it's actually better than Hyundai's. You should take Tesla's claims with a grain of salt.