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I'll wait for Consumer Reports or the EPA before believing any of Tesla's range claims. E: As in from the EPA itself and validated by Consumer Report's field-t

I'll wait for Consumer Reports or the EPA before believing any of Tesla's range claims. E: As in from the EPA itself and validated by Consumer Report's field-testing, not Tesla claiming EPA certification and verified through easily cheat-able testing.

boardwaalk 6y ago
Respectfully speaking, if you read to the second sentence, you'd learn the range is an EPA rating.
- new_realist 6y ago
  I think they mean they’re waiting for the EPA to test it themselves. Tesla conducts and self-certifies their own tests, and to my knowledge the EPA has never tested one in their own lab.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    > the EPA has never tested one in their own lab. That would make Tesla's prior claims about the EPA screwing the mileage tests up a couple months ago quite odd. https://electrek.co/2020/04/29/tesla-model-s-400-mile-range-epa-mistake-test/ https://electrek.co/2020/04/29/tesla-model-s-400-mile-range-... > The CEO claimed that the EPA left the door open and the key inside the car when stopping during range testing, resulting in the car remaining powered up and losing 2% of battery capacity.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - NotSammyHagar 6y ago
    That's almost certainly wrong because they had blog posts talking about epa testing.
new_realist 6y ago
Teslas are known for achieving only 75-85% of EPA in the real world. This is based on my own data, owning multiple Teslas over four years. The issue is that short drives suffer HVAC losses and long drives are at highway speeds, which is significantly above the speed the EPA uses for their dyno. tests. Further, Tesla actually runs the tests themselves and uses their own calculations to simulate wind resistance.
- SEJeff 6y ago
  The HVAC losses are much less in the Model Y due to the heat pump / octovalve, something I wish they'd update the new from the factory Model 3s with. Sandy Munroe did a full Model Y teardown and has a whole segment on how this simple invention is brilliant as it increases real-world range. Edit: mentioned the octovalve, which has no equivalent in any existing EV (i3, taycan, and leaf included).
  - new_realist 6y ago
    Other EVs have been using heat pumps for years, like the i3 and LEAF. I don’t know why they didn’t go with it for the 3, or retrofit it to the S and X.
    - SEJeff 6y ago
      Not one like this. The Model 3 "superbottle" was the best in the industry for the problem they were trying to solve with it. The Model Y "octovalve" heat pump is the successor and does things even better (and it is patented FYI). https://insideevs.com/news/408437/tesla-model-y-teardown-heat-pump/ https://insideevs.com/news/408437/tesla-model-y-teardown-hea...
      - clouddrover 6y ago
        All I see in the video is a description of a heat pump. In what way is Tesla's heat pump better than, for example, Hyundai's: https://press.kia.com/eu/en/home/media-resouces/press-releases/2020/New_Heat_Pump_Technology.html https://press.kia.com/eu/en/home/media-resouces/press-releas...
rowawey 6y ago
I wouldn't hold my breath, CR is a husk of its former self and doesn't produce very much content anymore. The main numbers that matter are: - conversion efficiency of converters/inverters, if any - efficiency of motors - drivetrain friction - tires' rolling resistance - tires' air pressures - wheels' alignment - rotational moment of wheels (possibly) - total weight - coefficient of drag which lead to kWh/mi or kWh/km, combined with usable kWh, results in range. There's no cheating measured data or fundamental principles.

boardwaalk 6y ago

Respectfully speaking, if you read to the second sentence, you'd learn the range is an EPA rating.

new_realist 6y ago
I think they mean they’re waiting for the EPA to test it themselves. Tesla conducts and self-certifies their own tests, and to my knowledge the EPA has never tested one in their own lab.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > the EPA has never tested one in their own lab. That would make Tesla's prior claims about the EPA screwing the mileage tests up a couple months ago quite odd. https://electrek.co/2020/04/29/tesla-model-s-400-mile-range-epa-mistake-test/ https://electrek.co/2020/04/29/tesla-model-s-400-mile-range-... > The CEO claimed that the EPA left the door open and the key inside the car when stopping during range testing, resulting in the car remaining powered up and losing 2% of battery capacity.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- NotSammyHagar 6y ago
  That's almost certainly wrong because they had blog posts talking about epa testing.

new_realist 6y ago

Teslas are known for achieving only 75-85% of EPA in the real world. This is based on my own data, owning multiple Teslas over four years. The issue is that short drives suffer HVAC losses and long drives are at highway speeds, which is significantly above the speed the EPA uses for their dyno. tests. Further, Tesla actually runs the tests themselves and uses their own calculations to simulate wind resistance.

SEJeff 6y ago
The HVAC losses are much less in the Model Y due to the heat pump / octovalve, something I wish they'd update the new from the factory Model 3s with. Sandy Munroe did a full Model Y teardown and has a whole segment on how this simple invention is brilliant as it increases real-world range. Edit: mentioned the octovalve, which has no equivalent in any existing EV (i3, taycan, and leaf included).
- new_realist 6y ago
  Other EVs have been using heat pumps for years, like the i3 and LEAF. I don’t know why they didn’t go with it for the 3, or retrofit it to the S and X.
  - SEJeff 6y ago
    Not one like this. The Model 3 "superbottle" was the best in the industry for the problem they were trying to solve with it. The Model Y "octovalve" heat pump is the successor and does things even better (and it is patented FYI). https://insideevs.com/news/408437/tesla-model-y-teardown-heat-pump/ https://insideevs.com/news/408437/tesla-model-y-teardown-hea...
    - clouddrover 6y ago
      All I see in the video is a description of a heat pump. In what way is Tesla's heat pump better than, for example, Hyundai's: https://press.kia.com/eu/en/home/media-resouces/press-releases/2020/New_Heat_Pump_Technology.html https://press.kia.com/eu/en/home/media-resouces/press-releas...

rowawey 6y ago

I wouldn't hold my breath, CR is a husk of its former self and doesn't produce very much content anymore. The main numbers that matter are: - conversion efficiency of converters/inverters, if any - efficiency of motors - drivetrain friction - tires' rolling resistance - tires' air pressures - wheels' alignment - rotational moment of wheels (possibly) - total weight - coefficient of drag which lead to kWh/mi or kWh/km, combined with usable kWh, results in range. There's no cheating measured data or fundamental principles.