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> but at least we can now tell investors we are a keen company with an AI play up our sleeve Obviously I don't know the details of your company situation, but

> but at least we can now tell investors we are a keen company with an AI play up our sleeve Obviously I don't know the details of your company situation, but I've experienced myself over the years, that sometimes it can be less overall cost and trouble to give this kind of lip service, rather than fighting an overwhelming fashionable trend until that trend runs its natural course to extinction. > Team motivation is in a weird space: everyone is relaxed because there is no pressure to succeed If I was leading that team, I would try to find (or insert) nuggets of goodness (smaller/non-obvious objectives and tasks) in that project which allow the team members to get some personal longer term benefit out of it. And ideally find (or insert) nuggets of goodness (smaller/non-obvious objectives and tasks) in that project, which have a good chance of becoming useful to the company later - beyond the scope of the official project. And hopefully the team would become excited about doing something meaningful beyond the official project objective. p.s. I'm speaking from experience in this kind of a situation.

hieunc229 6y ago
Well, it sounds so weird but intriguing. Do you mind telling the rest of the story?
- noizejoy 6y ago
  The story would probably make little sense to most HN readers, since it's very old and what was very non-obvious back then, became very obvious 5 years later. Around 1994/95 client/server was unassailable in board rooms (much like AI is now). And after initially speaking up against it, I ended up shutting up about my criticism of that architectural approach, since it would have just gotten me fired. So I ended up sneaking some early Internet technologies into a big client/server project I managed. Doing that ended up benefiting those developers in future jobs, and the company, because they didn't have to re-write that part so quickly. :-)
  - epberry 6y ago
    Doesn't this speak more to the board's astounding foresight than inane projects?
    - xingped 6y ago
      I think he's saying the "foresight parts" were his initiatives, not the board's, and the board's part in it all had to be scrapped sooner rather than later while his initiatives did not.
    - lstamour 6y ago
      Somehow PC Mag seems like the best reference here: https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/clientserver https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/clientserver It’s hard to see the hype up close sometimes. The closest analogy I can think of and it’s an older one might be how in the mid-2000s everyone needed to make a “Web 2.0 mash-up” or how for awhile everyone needed “social” (remember Ping?)... if you were stuck with a stack based on jQuery and global variables, good luck transitioning to React without Facebook’s scale. Sometimes all you can do is try to stay organized, see a project through and hope it can evolve to something greater after the fad wears off...
      - kqr 6y ago
        > if you were stuck with a stack based on jQuery and global variables, good luck transitioning to React without Facebook’s scale. My team is doing exactly this on my initiative and seeing some positive effects already, even though we're only like 2% of the way there. Would you mind expanding on what you think is futile about it? I wouldn't want to be the one advocating something that with hindsight will look obviously stupid.
        gvjddbnvdrbv 6y ago
        There's loads written on re-writes.
        drunkpotato 6y ago
  - buu700 6y ago
    This may be a stupid question, but what does "client/server" mean in this context? I would interpret it to mean any networked or Internet-based application that has both client- and server-side logic, which obviously isn't anything special in 2020, but it sounds like you're referring to something else that would now be considered outdated?
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      I think they mean a dedicated thick client using the OS’s UI framework, rather than a web browser.
      - noizejoy 6y ago
        Not only the UI, but all of the business logic - so a very thick client indeed.
        willcipriano 6y ago
        I've always called these direct database applications. The implication that the client directly connects to the database without the benefit of a middle tier.
    - naniwaduni 6y ago
      I might be totally off the mark here, but in context I assumed the contrast was with doing all work on a thick "client". A client-server architecture in principle lets you run thinner clients and offload the heavy work, but in practice the network would've been expensive. A modern analogue might be something like premature distributed computing.
      - Throwaway111117 6y ago
        Maybe rather than: A modern analogue might be something like premature distributed computing A modern analogue might be n, where n is more familiar to the composer of this, or, the source of information determining the production of this text is most familiar with n, where n does not include the word premature
  - sime2009 6y ago
    Is this related to the "Network Computer" idea that Sun was pushing around that time in the 90s? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Computer

hieunc229 6y ago

Well, it sounds so weird but intriguing. Do you mind telling the rest of the story?

noizejoy 6y ago
The story would probably make little sense to most HN readers, since it's very old and what was very non-obvious back then, became very obvious 5 years later. Around 1994/95 client/server was unassailable in board rooms (much like AI is now). And after initially speaking up against it, I ended up shutting up about my criticism of that architectural approach, since it would have just gotten me fired. So I ended up sneaking some early Internet technologies into a big client/server project I managed. Doing that ended up benefiting those developers in future jobs, and the company, because they didn't have to re-write that part so quickly. :-)
- epberry 6y ago
  Doesn't this speak more to the board's astounding foresight than inane projects?
  - xingped 6y ago
    I think he's saying the "foresight parts" were his initiatives, not the board's, and the board's part in it all had to be scrapped sooner rather than later while his initiatives did not.
  - lstamour 6y ago
    Somehow PC Mag seems like the best reference here: https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/clientserver https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/clientserver It’s hard to see the hype up close sometimes. The closest analogy I can think of and it’s an older one might be how in the mid-2000s everyone needed to make a “Web 2.0 mash-up” or how for awhile everyone needed “social” (remember Ping?)... if you were stuck with a stack based on jQuery and global variables, good luck transitioning to React without Facebook’s scale. Sometimes all you can do is try to stay organized, see a project through and hope it can evolve to something greater after the fad wears off...
    - kqr 6y ago
      > if you were stuck with a stack based on jQuery and global variables, good luck transitioning to React without Facebook’s scale. My team is doing exactly this on my initiative and seeing some positive effects already, even though we're only like 2% of the way there. Would you mind expanding on what you think is futile about it? I wouldn't want to be the one advocating something that with hindsight will look obviously stupid.
      - gvjddbnvdrbv 6y ago
        There's loads written on re-writes.
        drunkpotato 6y ago
- buu700 6y ago
  This may be a stupid question, but what does "client/server" mean in this context? I would interpret it to mean any networked or Internet-based application that has both client- and server-side logic, which obviously isn't anything special in 2020, but it sounds like you're referring to something else that would now be considered outdated?
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    I think they mean a dedicated thick client using the OS’s UI framework, rather than a web browser.
    - noizejoy 6y ago
      Not only the UI, but all of the business logic - so a very thick client indeed.
      - willcipriano 6y ago
        I've always called these direct database applications. The implication that the client directly connects to the database without the benefit of a middle tier.
  - naniwaduni 6y ago
    I might be totally off the mark here, but in context I assumed the contrast was with doing all work on a thick "client". A client-server architecture in principle lets you run thinner clients and offload the heavy work, but in practice the network would've been expensive. A modern analogue might be something like premature distributed computing.
    - Throwaway111117 6y ago
      Maybe rather than: A modern analogue might be something like premature distributed computing A modern analogue might be n, where n is more familiar to the composer of this, or, the source of information determining the production of this text is most familiar with n, where n does not include the word premature
- sime2009 6y ago
  Is this related to the "Network Computer" idea that Sun was pushing around that time in the 90s? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Computer