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> What percentage of people in tech are Black? Some single digit percentage I think it's presumptuous to imply that black people necessarily have a problem wit

> What percentage of people in tech are Black? Some single digit percentage I think it's presumptuous to imply that black people necessarily have a problem with master/slave terminology outside of the "owning people" context. I feel compelled to out myself as a black person to say that its absurd. The issue of the day is that police need to stop killing us with impunity. Believe it or not, there is actually a very limited amount of attention available for issues surrounding systemic racial injustice and distractions like this just exhaust that very limited resource and leave us with jaded citizens who roll their eyes whenever issues of social justice are broached. Even the very idea of "social justice" is considered a pejorative because of the focus on stupid issues like this by a privileged group of people who are so comfortable that they have time to worry about things like arbitrary technology labels.

halostatue 6y ago
Not everyone can directly make the changes that will stop police from killing black people. Few people can. If this microaggression can be removed, why shouldn’t it?
- root_axis 6y ago
  > Not everyone can directly make the changes that will stop police from killing black people They can do exactly what they're doing with regard to this issue, spread awareness, except with regard to issues that actually affect the lives and outcomes of black people, not imaginary problems that don't affect black people in the least. > If this microaggression can be removed, why shouldn’t it? The presence of certain words outside of a racial context isn't a microaggression. Microaggressions are subtly racist behaviors acted out by people that make other people feel uncomfortable, embarrassed, or unwelcome. It's about behavior. However, I am not arguing it shouldn't change, I'm saying that now is the worst time to bring up this issue, it's just sapping the attention from the issue of police violence and systemic racism.
zuminator 6y ago
Am black, I totally agree it’s not a major issue, but I still think it’s not a bad change to make. This is just a hypothetical scenario but I’ve had similar moments before. I’m working with a white person, he says something like, "you mind hooking up that slave device?" And there’s this tiny bit of awkwardness, which feels unmentionably dumb to both of us, but is there none the less. We say nothing, and the moment passes. Except maybe, next time subconsciously, we’re a little more reluctant to work with each other, we don’t even realize why. If making this inconsequential terminological adjustment serves to help get rid of a minuscule, barely perceptible degree of racial friction, then great, why not I say.
- root_axis 6y ago
  I don't think it's a bad change, I think alternative words are fine and I would encourage anyone who wants to make such a change to do a find/replace in their codebase. What I don't like is delving into this topic now, when there are so many more important issues at hand and the nation is actually listening for once, especially knowing how this issue will be used to shut down important conversations around race and characterize the social justice movement as puerile and trivial. The reality is master/slave terminology is trivial. If someone wants to replace "master" with "main" in code review, I think that's fine, perhaps even slightly better than what it was before, but this should stay within the confines of the organization rather than dilute the movement proper.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    A computer programmer can change programming terminology. They can't really change police department practices.
    - root_axis 6y ago
      > A computer programmer can change programming terminology And that's fine, perhaps even laudable in the abstract, but right now it's not what we should be wasting time on. > They can't really change police department practices They could protest. They could donate time and money. They could use their platform to elevate issues that have a material impact on people's lives. They aren't obligated to do those things to be good people, and a few of them might be doing all of the above, but changing computer jargon doesn't even begin to register on the scales of social justice, it is so utterly meaningless in the face of what's going on all around us that it's almost insulting, save for the fact that the idea is overall well intentioned.
rrradical 6y ago
Good point. I did assume the idea for this change originally started with someone that felt personal harm from it, but I have no evidence of that.

halostatue 6y ago

Not everyone can directly make the changes that will stop police from killing black people. Few people can. If this microaggression can be removed, why shouldn’t it?

root_axis 6y ago
> Not everyone can directly make the changes that will stop police from killing black people They can do exactly what they're doing with regard to this issue, spread awareness, except with regard to issues that actually affect the lives and outcomes of black people, not imaginary problems that don't affect black people in the least. > If this microaggression can be removed, why shouldn’t it? The presence of certain words outside of a racial context isn't a microaggression. Microaggressions are subtly racist behaviors acted out by people that make other people feel uncomfortable, embarrassed, or unwelcome. It's about behavior. However, I am not arguing it shouldn't change, I'm saying that now is the worst time to bring up this issue, it's just sapping the attention from the issue of police violence and systemic racism.

zuminator 6y ago

Am black, I totally agree it’s not a major issue, but I still think it’s not a bad change to make. This is just a hypothetical scenario but I’ve had similar moments before. I’m working with a white person, he says something like, "you mind hooking up that slave device?" And there’s this tiny bit of awkwardness, which feels unmentionably dumb to both of us, but is there none the less. We say nothing, and the moment passes. Except maybe, next time subconsciously, we’re a little more reluctant to work with each other, we don’t even realize why. If making this inconsequential terminological adjustment serves to help get rid of a minuscule, barely perceptible degree of racial friction, then great, why not I say.

root_axis 6y ago
I don't think it's a bad change, I think alternative words are fine and I would encourage anyone who wants to make such a change to do a find/replace in their codebase. What I don't like is delving into this topic now, when there are so many more important issues at hand and the nation is actually listening for once, especially knowing how this issue will be used to shut down important conversations around race and characterize the social justice movement as puerile and trivial. The reality is master/slave terminology is trivial. If someone wants to replace "master" with "main" in code review, I think that's fine, perhaps even slightly better than what it was before, but this should stay within the confines of the organization rather than dilute the movement proper.
- sukilot 6y ago
  A computer programmer can change programming terminology. They can't really change police department practices.
  - root_axis 6y ago
    > A computer programmer can change programming terminology And that's fine, perhaps even laudable in the abstract, but right now it's not what we should be wasting time on. > They can't really change police department practices They could protest. They could donate time and money. They could use their platform to elevate issues that have a material impact on people's lives. They aren't obligated to do those things to be good people, and a few of them might be doing all of the above, but changing computer jargon doesn't even begin to register on the scales of social justice, it is so utterly meaningless in the face of what's going on all around us that it's almost insulting, save for the fact that the idea is overall well intentioned.

rrradical 6y ago

Good point. I did assume the idea for this change originally started with someone that felt personal harm from it, but I have no evidence of that.