8 ms·

An exploratory statistical analysis of Akira and Ghost in the Shell

191 points by nibnalin 6y ago

podge 6y ago
Interesting! Particularly the discovery of the sparing use of green in Akira. I haven't seen either of those films in quite a few years and it really brought back to me how staggeringly beautiful they are. When I was in Sydney in 2018 I was fortunate enough to stumble upon the 'Anime Architecture' exhibition[1] at the Japan Foundation, which included various pencil drawings and hand-drawn cells from Ghost in the Shell. It's a traveling exhibition so if it ends up near you and you're a Ghost in the Shell fan I highly recommend checking it out. [1] https://anime-architecture.org https://anime-architecture.org
- LiquidSky 6y ago
  Thanks for this. I've always been very interested in fictional architecture and this looks amazing.
  - cinntaile 6y ago
    Take a look at Cities of the Fantastic [0] as well! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Cit%C3%A9s_obscures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Cit%C3%A9s_obscures
  - flobosg 6y ago
    Check out Blame! if you haven't already.
    - livueta 6y ago
      Really, anything involving Tsutomu Nihei, even the Sidonia 3dcg anime. Shoujo Shuumatsu Ryokou's also got some neat, pretty Nihei-inspired megastructure architecture. Finally, Texhnolyze does a lot of fun stuff with using architecture (in both Lux and the surface world) to contribute to atmosphere and tone as well as plot.
- novok 6y ago
  Other than ghibli films, what other anime films look as good or iconic as those two.
  - ghostDancer 6y ago
    Not the same style, and probably not as good, the films of Makoto Shinkai are really beautiful to watch : https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1396121/ https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1396121/
  - pilaf 6y ago
    I'd say anything by Satoshi Kon, especially Paprika and Tokyo Godfathers.
    - flobosg 6y ago
      I'm partial to Perfect Blue, but those two are great as well.
  - fnord123 6y ago
    Red Line - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiFjyqRfkpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiFjyqRfkpo Ninja Scroll - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaXJI339uQs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaXJI339uQs
    - jcun4128 6y ago
      > Ninja Scroll Haha oh boy
    - saiya-jin 6y ago
      well then Sword of the Stranger (Stranger: Mukô hadan) must have a honorary mention too for those kickass main characters
    - crocal 6y ago
      Upvoted for mentioning Red Line, most amazing anime you have never heard of.
  - 6y ago
seism 6y ago
Wonderful exploration of film data. It would be great to learn from the same process applied to film material in the public domain. Extra brownie points for using "Python, Julia & R" in the same dataviz.
haddr 6y ago
Somehow reminds me of the "Typeset in the future" serie of movie analyses from the perspective of typography used. Highly enjoyable (if you like typography and sci-fi movies): https://typesetinthefuture.com/2016/06/19/bladerunner/ https://typesetinthefuture.com/2016/06/19/bladerunner/
- riffraff 6y ago
  Typeset in the future is a treasure. I cannot see eurostile anymore without thinking of it.
- ericol 6y ago
  Last year somebody posted this [1] right here in HN. Speaking about being mind blown. [1] https://fontsinuse.com/uses/28760/neon-genesis-evangelion https://fontsinuse.com/uses/28760/neon-genesis-evangelion
  - jacobush 6y ago
    502 Bad Gateway? :-)
    - ericol 6y ago
      Oh. I picked it up from the chat with a friend where I knew it was. That's so sad, it was a really incredible good article. Fortunately, it's available in Google's cache [1] (And I just made a backup with SingleFile because of the 502) [1] https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WYjiVtFump0J:https://fontsinuse.com/uses/28760/neon-genesis-evangelion+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ar https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WYjiVt...
      - riquito 6y ago
        The original image is still available https://www.evangelion.co.jp/neon_genesis.html https://www.evangelion.co.jp/neon_genesis.html
  - matheusmoreira 6y ago
ImaCake 6y ago
This is enjoyable reading. It is always interesting to see different ways of visualising things to extract new meaning from them. The dominant colour graphs remind me of kymographs from single molecule biophysics which track the movement of proteins while they carry out some biologically important process.
jdkee 6y ago
While I disagree with several of the author's conclusions, this is a novel technique of data visualization.
- inetknght 6y ago
  What do you think is particularly novel about it?
- hatmatrix 6y ago
  What conclusions do you disagree with?
- taneq 6y ago
  I haven't seen chord diagrams used like this before but back in the early 2000s I worked in a shared office with a guy doing movie colour analysis using barcodes, so that at least has been around for a while.
gwern 6y ago
Note to author: you have many "its" typos in the visualization captions & elsewhere. It would be good to have an abstract in the paper. I am also a little puzzled by the GitS section: the Akira section makes a point about green=good that seems correct and I'd never realized before, but the GitS section does not actually seem to draw that much on the color analysis? There's just the one point about shifting into action. Is that really all that can be said about the colors for GitS?
- nibnalin 6y ago
  Hey Gwern! Thank you for your note. You're right about the "its", I think a lot of them happened because quotation marks in my Latex setup need to be dealt with individually. I'll make a pass and fix those soon. I suppose you are also right about the GitS section. The main useful observations I made there were the abundance of skin tone and the gothic look of the museum towards the end, but those are not as significant as the green in Akira. I'd love to hear your (and anyone else's) thoughts on the colors in GitS. ( Also, on a separate note, thank you for all your advice related to ML things in the TPU Discord over the past couple days :) )
wowReallyGood 6y ago
In summation: I like these movies.
metroholografix 6y ago
GITS is an immensely deep philosophical tour de force, an emergent masterpiece of synthesis. I enjoyed the analysis even though it feels incomplete without examination of the ambient music (you could write a thesis just on that alone).
gfaure 6y ago
Interesting colour analysis that would be great to see applied to other movies. Minor note -- "Batuo" in the context of GitS is surely "Batou"?
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
...In my essay, I want to explore the “shadows” of these stained glass windows (i.e. films) to understand the patterns exhibited by the church (i.e the art of filmmaking). You can't do that! Church is holy! No x-raying of wonders allowed! That would show the extent of the cargo-cult :) Anyways, I liked it, though it felt somehow incomplete? What do you make of [1] https://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/2010/03/teal-and-orange-hollywood-please-stop.html https://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/2010/03/teal-and-orange-h... in this context?
rawoke083600 6y ago
Man this is so well done !! Congrats :) I love the barcode-method ! It's like a "dimensional-reduction-technique" but visual.
agent008t 6y ago
Why is Akira considered good? I watched it as an adult a few years ago and did not get the appeal. The story made little sense and appeared to have little, if any, depth. I wasn't really taken by the atmosphere or the 'feel' of it either. The graphics looked dated and not very inspiring. Is it one of those movies that is noteworthy because it was the first to try certain things? Because it was very impressive for its time? Because people associate a sense of nostalgia with it? I would hardly recommend it today to someone looking for a good movie to watch. Some of my most favourite movies are old and some are anime, and I am a big fan of cyberpunk, so I don't think it's because of my aversion to the genre.
- albertzeyer 6y ago
  Interestingly, when I search for Akira on Google, Google remarks that people also search for "Why is Akira so popular?", and links to this site: https://filmschoolrejects.com/akira-influence-12cb6d84c0bc/ https://filmschoolrejects.com/akira-influence-12cb6d84c0bc/
- chrisandchips 6y ago
  > The story made little sense and appeared to have little, if any, depth. I felt similarly the first time I watched it, but I walked out feeling confused rather than feeling like the film lacks depth. IMO a large portion of the film is spent exploring the notion of power than one can't control. In fact, we can split the different characters of the film into those who are corrupted by this path (the scientist who clearly wants to see Akira's power blossom, the military lead who wants it controlled for public safety/the military, Tetsuo who is always trying to take on more responsibility and leadership then he can. Only character's like Kaneda, who don't submit themselves to their own desires for power, seem to faire well in the world around them .. but that's just my two cents. > The graphics looked dated and not very inspiring. I can't disagree with this more. This film came out in 1988, and nothing else even came close in terms of its visual effects for an animated film. I'm sure at the time people couldn't believe what they were watching, it must have seemed really alien. I'm honestly surprised that you think it looks dated. Even today, animes I've seen (although granted that isn't many) don't achieve the same level of beauty in their animation of light. You can see examples throughout this link to jog your memory if it's been a while: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf0WjeE6eyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf0WjeE6eyM
michaelt 6y ago
> In any other anime film, we might be quick to dismiss these suggestive, voyeuristic shots as "fan service", but Ghost in the Shell uses these to express something deeper. When bodies are purposeless shells, what does it even mean to sexualise them? While I agree the nudity in GITS isn't gratuitously sexual, I was quite surprised when I learned what a large portion of Shirow's oeuvre is erotic art books.

191 points by nibnalin 6y ago

Interesting! Particularly the discovery of the sparing use of green in Akira. I haven't seen either of those films in quite a few years and it really brought back to me how staggeringly beautiful they are. When I was in Sydney in 2018 I was fortunate enough to stumble upon the 'Anime Architecture' exhibition[1] at the Japan Foundation, which included various pencil drawings and hand-drawn cells from Ghost in the Shell. It's a traveling exhibition so if it ends up near you and you're a Ghost in the Shell fan I highly recommend checking it out. [1] https://anime-architecture.org https://anime-architecture.org

LiquidSky 6y ago
Thanks for this. I've always been very interested in fictional architecture and this looks amazing.
- cinntaile 6y ago
  Take a look at Cities of the Fantastic [0] as well! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Cit%C3%A9s_obscures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Cit%C3%A9s_obscures
- flobosg 6y ago
  Check out Blame! if you haven't already.
  - livueta 6y ago
    Really, anything involving Tsutomu Nihei, even the Sidonia 3dcg anime. Shoujo Shuumatsu Ryokou's also got some neat, pretty Nihei-inspired megastructure architecture. Finally, Texhnolyze does a lot of fun stuff with using architecture (in both Lux and the surface world) to contribute to atmosphere and tone as well as plot.
novok 6y ago
Other than ghibli films, what other anime films look as good or iconic as those two.
- ghostDancer 6y ago
  Not the same style, and probably not as good, the films of Makoto Shinkai are really beautiful to watch : https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1396121/ https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1396121/
- pilaf 6y ago
  I'd say anything by Satoshi Kon, especially Paprika and Tokyo Godfathers.
  - flobosg 6y ago
    I'm partial to Perfect Blue, but those two are great as well.
- fnord123 6y ago
  Red Line - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiFjyqRfkpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiFjyqRfkpo Ninja Scroll - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaXJI339uQs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaXJI339uQs
  - jcun4128 6y ago
    > Ninja Scroll Haha oh boy
  - saiya-jin 6y ago
    well then Sword of the Stranger (Stranger: Mukô hadan) must have a honorary mention too for those kickass main characters
  - crocal 6y ago
    Upvoted for mentioning Red Line, most amazing anime you have never heard of.
- 6y ago

seism 6y ago

Wonderful exploration of film data. It would be great to learn from the same process applied to film material in the public domain. Extra brownie points for using "Python, Julia & R" in the same dataviz.

haddr 6y ago

Somehow reminds me of the "Typeset in the future" serie of movie analyses from the perspective of typography used. Highly enjoyable (if you like typography and sci-fi movies): https://typesetinthefuture.com/2016/06/19/bladerunner/ https://typesetinthefuture.com/2016/06/19/bladerunner/

riffraff 6y ago
Typeset in the future is a treasure. I cannot see eurostile anymore without thinking of it.
ericol 6y ago
Last year somebody posted this [1] right here in HN. Speaking about being mind blown. [1] https://fontsinuse.com/uses/28760/neon-genesis-evangelion https://fontsinuse.com/uses/28760/neon-genesis-evangelion
- jacobush 6y ago
  502 Bad Gateway? :-)
  - ericol 6y ago
    Oh. I picked it up from the chat with a friend where I knew it was. That's so sad, it was a really incredible good article. Fortunately, it's available in Google's cache [1] (And I just made a backup with SingleFile because of the 502) [1] https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WYjiVtFump0J:https://fontsinuse.com/uses/28760/neon-genesis-evangelion+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ar https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WYjiVt...
    - riquito 6y ago
      The original image is still available https://www.evangelion.co.jp/neon_genesis.html https://www.evangelion.co.jp/neon_genesis.html
- matheusmoreira 6y ago

ImaCake 6y ago

This is enjoyable reading. It is always interesting to see different ways of visualising things to extract new meaning from them. The dominant colour graphs remind me of kymographs from single molecule biophysics which track the movement of proteins while they carry out some biologically important process.

jdkee 6y ago

While I disagree with several of the author's conclusions, this is a novel technique of data visualization.

inetknght 6y ago
What do you think is particularly novel about it?
hatmatrix 6y ago
What conclusions do you disagree with?
taneq 6y ago
I haven't seen chord diagrams used like this before but back in the early 2000s I worked in a shared office with a guy doing movie colour analysis using barcodes, so that at least has been around for a while.

gwern 6y ago

Note to author: you have many "its" typos in the visualization captions & elsewhere. It would be good to have an abstract in the paper. I am also a little puzzled by the GitS section: the Akira section makes a point about green=good that seems correct and I'd never realized before, but the GitS section does not actually seem to draw that much on the color analysis? There's just the one point about shifting into action. Is that really all that can be said about the colors for GitS?

nibnalin 6y ago
Hey Gwern! Thank you for your note. You're right about the "its", I think a lot of them happened because quotation marks in my Latex setup need to be dealt with individually. I'll make a pass and fix those soon. I suppose you are also right about the GitS section. The main useful observations I made there were the abundance of skin tone and the gothic look of the museum towards the end, but those are not as significant as the green in Akira. I'd love to hear your (and anyone else's) thoughts on the colors in GitS. ( Also, on a separate note, thank you for all your advice related to ML things in the TPU Discord over the past couple days :) )

wowReallyGood 6y ago

In summation: I like these movies.

metroholografix 6y ago

GITS is an immensely deep philosophical tour de force, an emergent masterpiece of synthesis. I enjoyed the analysis even though it feels incomplete without examination of the ambient music (you could write a thesis just on that alone).

gfaure 6y ago

Interesting colour analysis that would be great to see applied to other movies. Minor note -- "Batuo" in the context of GitS is surely "Batou"?

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago

...In my essay, I want to explore the “shadows” of these stained glass windows (i.e. films) to understand the patterns exhibited by the church (i.e the art of filmmaking). You can't do that! Church is holy! No x-raying of wonders allowed! That would show the extent of the cargo-cult :) Anyways, I liked it, though it felt somehow incomplete? What do you make of [1] https://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/2010/03/teal-and-orange-hollywood-please-stop.html https://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/2010/03/teal-and-orange-h... in this context?

rawoke083600 6y ago

Man this is so well done !! Congrats :) I love the barcode-method ! It's like a "dimensional-reduction-technique" but visual.

agent008t 6y ago

Why is Akira considered good? I watched it as an adult a few years ago and did not get the appeal. The story made little sense and appeared to have little, if any, depth. I wasn't really taken by the atmosphere or the 'feel' of it either. The graphics looked dated and not very inspiring. Is it one of those movies that is noteworthy because it was the first to try certain things? Because it was very impressive for its time? Because people associate a sense of nostalgia with it? I would hardly recommend it today to someone looking for a good movie to watch. Some of my most favourite movies are old and some are anime, and I am a big fan of cyberpunk, so I don't think it's because of my aversion to the genre.

albertzeyer 6y ago
Interestingly, when I search for Akira on Google, Google remarks that people also search for "Why is Akira so popular?", and links to this site: https://filmschoolrejects.com/akira-influence-12cb6d84c0bc/ https://filmschoolrejects.com/akira-influence-12cb6d84c0bc/
chrisandchips 6y ago
> The story made little sense and appeared to have little, if any, depth. I felt similarly the first time I watched it, but I walked out feeling confused rather than feeling like the film lacks depth. IMO a large portion of the film is spent exploring the notion of power than one can't control. In fact, we can split the different characters of the film into those who are corrupted by this path (the scientist who clearly wants to see Akira's power blossom, the military lead who wants it controlled for public safety/the military, Tetsuo who is always trying to take on more responsibility and leadership then he can. Only character's like Kaneda, who don't submit themselves to their own desires for power, seem to faire well in the world around them .. but that's just my two cents. > The graphics looked dated and not very inspiring. I can't disagree with this more. This film came out in 1988, and nothing else even came close in terms of its visual effects for an animated film. I'm sure at the time people couldn't believe what they were watching, it must have seemed really alien. I'm honestly surprised that you think it looks dated. Even today, animes I've seen (although granted that isn't many) don't achieve the same level of beauty in their animation of light. You can see examples throughout this link to jog your memory if it's been a while: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf0WjeE6eyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf0WjeE6eyM

michaelt 6y ago

> In any other anime film, we might be quick to dismiss these suggestive, voyeuristic shots as "fan service", but Ghost in the Shell uses these to express something deeper. When bodies are purposeless shells, what does it even mean to sexualise them? While I agree the nudity in GITS isn't gratuitously sexual, I was quite surprised when I learned what a large portion of Shirow's oeuvre is erotic art books.