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Scrolling through the Twitter threads that spawned this debate, I’m presented with nothing but the faces of (almost exclusively) white liberal men. It seems to

Scrolling through the Twitter threads that spawned this debate, I’m presented with nothing but the faces of (almost exclusively) white liberal men. It seems to me that, unless it comes from the mouth of a black person, opinions as to the offensiveness of “master” are worse than worthless.

ogre_codes 6y ago
Then maybe you should read the words of a black person on the topic: > So it’s like, you know what you’re saying is not right. You’re just not trying. https://madamenoire.com/1167067/working-while-black-my-coworker-used-a-master-slave-analogy/ https://madamenoire.com/1167067/working-while-black-my-cowor...
- logicalmind 6y ago
  This link shows the problem of using master/slave. I think everyone in this thread is ok with moving away from using those terms. The problem is that the usage of master in terms of git, and github in particular, has nothing to do with master/slave. The word slave isn't even used in standard git or github parlance. What you're saying is that all uses of the word master implies master/slave, which is what people are disagreeing with. In the recording industry, everyone uses the term master to denote the production copy of combined tracks. The tracks that make up a master are not slaves. In the same way that branches that make up a master vcs are not slaves. In git parlance, master is where your builds come from for deployment. And branches are where you work on features. When branches are complete they merge back into master. How does this relate in any way to a master/slave definition? Based on the logic used, I would expect record studios to be moving away from using the word master as well.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    > What you're saying is that all uses of the word master implies master/slave, What it implies depends entirely on reader perspective. What I'm suggesting is that with at little or often zero cost we can avoid this whole issue and make some users more comfortable working with us. I could understand the argument if there was some kind of big cost to changing. The company I work with uses the master repo and I'm not advocating internally to change it right now. But for future, I'll use main. Because there is zero reason not to. > In git parlance, master is where your builds come from for deployment. As has been pointed out multiple times on this topic, use of the term in git did not come from the record industry. Git almost certainly uses the term master because Linux kernel developers used Bitkeeper prior to git. And Bitkeeper absolutely used the terminology master/ slave. https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2019-May/msg00066.html https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2019-May/...
    - logicalmind 6y ago
      Just to make you aware, the actual author of this in git does not say the same thing. While he wishes he had chosen better names (https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1271477451756056577 https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1271477451756056577), he did not mean master in terms of master/slave (https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441 https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441).
      - ogre_codes 6y ago
        He also very clearly agrees that master is a dated term which should be left behind. > I have wished many times I would have named them "main" (and "upstream") instead. > Glad it's happenning https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1271477451756056577?s=20 https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1271477451756056577?s=20
- dlivingston 6y ago
  The master/slave nomenclature is a completely different issue than “master branch” in git, as has been noted many times in this thread and related threads. On an aside, that’s a profoundly awful website. At one point, over 60% of my screen was filled with ads (top banner video ad, bottom banner image ad, inline text video ad).
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  I noticed new capitalization rules. I never knew black is Black and white is White. Geez.
allan_s 6y ago
> It seems to me that, unless it comes from the mouth of a black person I would even say more, a non-american-black person. It's like forgetting that even though most of american-black people have been subject to white master/black slave slavery, most black people on earth are African black, where they have not been subject to white master/black slave slavery (they have been subject to white colonialism, but they've also been subject to black/black slavery)

ogre_codes 6y ago

Then maybe you should read the words of a black person on the topic: > So it’s like, you know what you’re saying is not right. You’re just not trying. https://madamenoire.com/1167067/working-while-black-my-coworker-used-a-master-slave-analogy/ https://madamenoire.com/1167067/working-while-black-my-cowor...

logicalmind 6y ago
This link shows the problem of using master/slave. I think everyone in this thread is ok with moving away from using those terms. The problem is that the usage of master in terms of git, and github in particular, has nothing to do with master/slave. The word slave isn't even used in standard git or github parlance. What you're saying is that all uses of the word master implies master/slave, which is what people are disagreeing with. In the recording industry, everyone uses the term master to denote the production copy of combined tracks. The tracks that make up a master are not slaves. In the same way that branches that make up a master vcs are not slaves. In git parlance, master is where your builds come from for deployment. And branches are where you work on features. When branches are complete they merge back into master. How does this relate in any way to a master/slave definition? Based on the logic used, I would expect record studios to be moving away from using the word master as well.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > What you're saying is that all uses of the word master implies master/slave, What it implies depends entirely on reader perspective. What I'm suggesting is that with at little or often zero cost we can avoid this whole issue and make some users more comfortable working with us. I could understand the argument if there was some kind of big cost to changing. The company I work with uses the master repo and I'm not advocating internally to change it right now. But for future, I'll use main. Because there is zero reason not to. > In git parlance, master is where your builds come from for deployment. As has been pointed out multiple times on this topic, use of the term in git did not come from the record industry. Git almost certainly uses the term master because Linux kernel developers used Bitkeeper prior to git. And Bitkeeper absolutely used the terminology master/ slave. https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2019-May/msg00066.html https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2019-May/...
  - logicalmind 6y ago
    Just to make you aware, the actual author of this in git does not say the same thing. While he wishes he had chosen better names (https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1271477451756056577 https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1271477451756056577), he did not mean master in terms of master/slave (https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441 https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1272280760280637441).
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      He also very clearly agrees that master is a dated term which should be left behind. > I have wished many times I would have named them "main" (and "upstream") instead. > Glad it's happenning https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1271477451756056577?s=20 https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1271477451756056577?s=20
dlivingston 6y ago
The master/slave nomenclature is a completely different issue than “master branch” in git, as has been noted many times in this thread and related threads. On an aside, that’s a profoundly awful website. At one point, over 60% of my screen was filled with ads (top banner video ad, bottom banner image ad, inline text video ad).
A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
I noticed new capitalization rules. I never knew black is Black and white is White. Geez.

allan_s 6y ago

> It seems to me that, unless it comes from the mouth of a black person I would even say more, a non-american-black person. It's like forgetting that even though most of american-black people have been subject to white master/black slave slavery, most black people on earth are African black, where they have not been subject to white master/black slave slavery (they have been subject to white colonialism, but they've also been subject to black/black slavery)