4 ms·

Totally off-topic, but anybody who is into databases should at least have heard the name dBase, which was the most successful database in the 80s. However, they

by jansan 6y ago

Totally off-topic, but anybody who is into databases should at least have heard the name dBase, which was the most successful database in the 80s. However, they totally fucked up the release of version IV, which had serious reliability issues (not something you want in a database, in case you did not know). This lead to a dramatic decline and eventually the death of dBase. Who knows how the database and software landscape would look like had they released a version without major bugs.

beagle3 6y ago
I think it wasn't the IV version that killed it; After all, there were many dBase compatible programs at the time, e.g. FoxBase which were at least as good and comparably bug free. I suspect it's actually Microsoft Office with Access and a mature Excel that did it. Everyone was using office at the time (for Word, Excel, Powerpoint and the emerging Outlook), so access was "free"; and many things that dBase&co were used for, were actually becoming easier to do in Excel.
typh00n 6y ago
Not kidding, my dad still uses dBase databases in his five-man company to this day. (non-IT company) I even re-wrote some of his programs in C# 10 years ago, so he can use some of them with a modern GUI, but not replacing the database to stay compatible with his original software and tools. I was surprised that databases are contained in *.dbf files, and no real database-service is present to process database-calls.
- eropple 6y ago
  At the time, and depending on the OS...where would the service be? ;)
  - typh00n 6y ago
    I think i do not understand the question ... it is a little warehouse if that is your question. :-)
    - fomine3 6y ago
      MS-DOS doesn't support service(daemon) program so it's natural that local db file can be used directly from application.
Stratoscope 6y ago
The dBASE file format lives on in an unlikely place: the "shapefile" format supported by nearly all Geographic Information System (GIS) software. A shapefile is actually a collection of files, typically using the same filename with different extensions. There is a .shp file containing the actual geographical "shapes": points, lines, polygons, etc. Alongside it is a .dbf (dBASE) file with information about each shape. For example, if you have a list of cities, each city may have a boundary polygon (or multipolygon) in the .shp file, and the city name, population, and other demographics in the .dbf file. The other required file is a .shx containing indices into the .shp file for faster navigation through it. There may be other files as well; a common one is the .prj file that describes the projection used in this shapefile. This collection of files, foo.shp, foo.dbf, foo.shx, etc. is referred to together as a "shapefile". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapefile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapefile Bringing us full circle, GIS programmers and users often import a shapefile into PostGIS for processing. And PostGIS is, of course, a GIS extension to PostgreSQL! https://postgis.net/ https://postgis.net/
- mycall 6y ago
  Since this is dBase file format, does this mean shapefiles can do more than alternative formats, like geoJSON?
  - Stratoscope 6y ago
    That's an interesting question. In practice I've found it to be the other way around - especially the ten character limit on .dbx column names. If your incoming data has a field named "Population in 2010" you have to map it to something shorter like "PopIn2010". Not a big deal but it gets annoying.
  - aasasd 6y ago
    I have exactly the right link to answer this: http://switchfromshapefile.org http://switchfromshapefile.org Funny enough, two popular contenders are built on SQLite.
sverhagen 6y ago
dBase III+ came with a bit of an embedded programming language, the logical extension of which was the Clipper programming language (from CA, by the time I came along). It never got me to do Windows programming, I suppose the later versions must have eventually caught up, but/so I moved on. But it was a great combo for making database-based applications, for me as an aspiring programmer. I was a teenager, and probably the best feature of the dBase/Clipper combo was that I had a great mentor in my neighborhood. Never left programming, and gave up other passionate hobbies for it.
joering2 6y ago
> at least have heard the name dBase Oh man, you just wet my eyes! What a trip into the past! I wrote my first paid project in dBase in 1982 when noone knew what "computer mouse" was. I answered the ad in newspaper and initially they wanted me to help them organize text files. I told them about dBase and that was my first project - a simple database to manage their parking lots. It was such early days of programming, we had basically zero agreement! Just half piece of paper that they pay me 10% in advance and short list of features to get remaining 90%. And funny thing is - no copyright agreement! So while I made few months of rent for their project, I ended up paying off my first mortgage by just offering the same piece of software to many other parking corps! It was incredible feeling! Like creating money out of thin air - they sponsor my plane/hotel and I just told them what PC (with DOS) I need to be ready. Then in just few hours of installation and training, I was on my way home with nice check. I frankly don't even remember how much it was back then... Good times!
- jansan 6y ago
  I my dad's office they were analyzing market research data. A database query that takes seconds (or maybe less than a second) today was started on Friday afternoon. On Tuesday morning the database was finished processing :)
- 72deluxe 6y ago
  Amazing story. How did you get known to the other parking companies? Did you ring them up or something? I suppose the secret is quickly delivering software that does what someone wants.
  - joering2 6y ago
    Yes. Back then cold calling was welcomed. Everyone picked up the phone with excitement of who's calling. All I had to tell them is the name of the company and how they can benefit for the software. Honestly conversion rate was close to 100%, its just some locations had headquarters across the country and I didn't feel like flying in winter time lol.

by jansan 6y ago

beagle3 6y ago

I think it wasn't the IV version that killed it; After all, there were many dBase compatible programs at the time, e.g. FoxBase which were at least as good and comparably bug free. I suspect it's actually Microsoft Office with Access and a mature Excel that did it. Everyone was using office at the time (for Word, Excel, Powerpoint and the emerging Outlook), so access was "free"; and many things that dBase&co were used for, were actually becoming easier to do in Excel.

typh00n 6y ago

Not kidding, my dad still uses dBase databases in his five-man company to this day. (non-IT company) I even re-wrote some of his programs in C# 10 years ago, so he can use some of them with a modern GUI, but not replacing the database to stay compatible with his original software and tools. I was surprised that databases are contained in *.dbf files, and no real database-service is present to process database-calls.

eropple 6y ago
At the time, and depending on the OS...where would the service be? ;)
- typh00n 6y ago
  I think i do not understand the question ... it is a little warehouse if that is your question. :-)
  - fomine3 6y ago
    MS-DOS doesn't support service(daemon) program so it's natural that local db file can be used directly from application.

Stratoscope 6y ago

The dBASE file format lives on in an unlikely place: the "shapefile" format supported by nearly all Geographic Information System (GIS) software. A shapefile is actually a collection of files, typically using the same filename with different extensions. There is a .shp file containing the actual geographical "shapes": points, lines, polygons, etc. Alongside it is a .dbf (dBASE) file with information about each shape. For example, if you have a list of cities, each city may have a boundary polygon (or multipolygon) in the .shp file, and the city name, population, and other demographics in the .dbf file. The other required file is a .shx containing indices into the .shp file for faster navigation through it. There may be other files as well; a common one is the .prj file that describes the projection used in this shapefile. This collection of files, foo.shp, foo.dbf, foo.shx, etc. is referred to together as a "shapefile". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapefile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapefile Bringing us full circle, GIS programmers and users often import a shapefile into PostGIS for processing. And PostGIS is, of course, a GIS extension to PostgreSQL! https://postgis.net/ https://postgis.net/

mycall 6y ago
Since this is dBase file format, does this mean shapefiles can do more than alternative formats, like geoJSON?
- Stratoscope 6y ago
  That's an interesting question. In practice I've found it to be the other way around - especially the ten character limit on .dbx column names. If your incoming data has a field named "Population in 2010" you have to map it to something shorter like "PopIn2010". Not a big deal but it gets annoying.
- aasasd 6y ago
  I have exactly the right link to answer this: http://switchfromshapefile.org http://switchfromshapefile.org Funny enough, two popular contenders are built on SQLite.

sverhagen 6y ago

dBase III+ came with a bit of an embedded programming language, the logical extension of which was the Clipper programming language (from CA, by the time I came along). It never got me to do Windows programming, I suppose the later versions must have eventually caught up, but/so I moved on. But it was a great combo for making database-based applications, for me as an aspiring programmer. I was a teenager, and probably the best feature of the dBase/Clipper combo was that I had a great mentor in my neighborhood. Never left programming, and gave up other passionate hobbies for it.

joering2 6y ago

> at least have heard the name dBase Oh man, you just wet my eyes! What a trip into the past! I wrote my first paid project in dBase in 1982 when noone knew what "computer mouse" was. I answered the ad in newspaper and initially they wanted me to help them organize text files. I told them about dBase and that was my first project - a simple database to manage their parking lots. It was such early days of programming, we had basically zero agreement! Just half piece of paper that they pay me 10% in advance and short list of features to get remaining 90%. And funny thing is - no copyright agreement! So while I made few months of rent for their project, I ended up paying off my first mortgage by just offering the same piece of software to many other parking corps! It was incredible feeling! Like creating money out of thin air - they sponsor my plane/hotel and I just told them what PC (with DOS) I need to be ready. Then in just few hours of installation and training, I was on my way home with nice check. I frankly don't even remember how much it was back then... Good times!

jansan 6y ago
I my dad's office they were analyzing market research data. A database query that takes seconds (or maybe less than a second) today was started on Friday afternoon. On Tuesday morning the database was finished processing :)
72deluxe 6y ago
Amazing story. How did you get known to the other parking companies? Did you ring them up or something? I suppose the secret is quickly delivering software that does what someone wants.
- joering2 6y ago
  Yes. Back then cold calling was welcomed. Everyone picked up the phone with excitement of who's calling. All I had to tell them is the name of the company and how they can benefit for the software. Honestly conversion rate was close to 100%, its just some locations had headquarters across the country and I didn't feel like flying in winter time lol.