3 ms·

> You want to rewrite parts the language because a few people are offended? No I don't. I want to use the word denylist instead of blacklist. So do other peopl

> You want to rewrite parts the language because a few people are offended? No I don't. I want to use the word denylist instead of blacklist. So do other people and companies. Other words have gone in and out of fashion without rewriting parts of the language. Yes, the slippery slope logical fallacy definitely applies here. You are greatly exaggerating what's happening or what could happen as the result of using a word with a clearer meaning, in professional settings. > the history of the term whitelist/blacklist, they are not rooted racially. The continued use of the word black to mean "evil" in the workplace and white to mean "good" while those terms both also apply to people's race is the history of the past few decades. In a society where people are being systemically oppressed on the basis of race. And it just so happens "coincidentally" that it is the oppressed minority that gets to hear that the same name for their race means "evil" on a regular basis at work. No thanks. > Do you realize how often people are offended at the most miniscule and obnoxious things? > This isn't PoC crying for change. Choose one? PoC are asking for change about these specific terms, and it came up as early as the 1970s. This has been an ongoing conversation that you have not been a part of. A simple search will help you educate yourself about the specific PoC who have complained in various formats including scholarly articles, presentations at public meetings, as well as editorials, and blogs. In addition to these specific terms, the larger subject under which this falls is microagressions, and you will find countless sources from PoC talking about that issue and why it is important to fix.

cameronbrown 6y ago
> The continued use of the word black to mean "evil" in the workplace and white to mean "good" while those terms both also apply to people's race is the history of the past few decades. Humongous strawman. Blacklists aren't inherently 'bad', but you've applied that label to it. You could just as easily argue that blacklists are good, i.e. prevent DoS attacks or spam. Conversely you can argue that whitelists are good. > A simple search will help you educate yourself about the specific PoC who have complained in various formats including scholarly articles, presentations at public meetings, as well as editorials, and blogs. No, the onus is on you if you want to change language. It is not something people will just do without being convinced.
- tchaffee 6y ago
  Again, I'm not changing the language. It's using one word instead of another. Big companies have already replaced "blacklist" with "denylist" long ago, and you are going to see more and more of this as time goes on. There is zero onus on me. I just have to watch it happen. The onus is on you to catch up with and understand why companies are doing it. Most people who don't like social change are going to write it off and dismiss it. But if you want to know the real motivations and positive impact it has, you can learn.
  - cameronbrown 6y ago
    Blacklist to denylist is a very recent thing. Believe me, I've been watching this happen over the past few weeks. There's been talk for a long time but these changes are recent, and clearly a response to American politics right now. I'm not denying positive motivations, I'm just skeptical of the actual impact, which is why we're having this discussion. I'm happy to be convinced, but these ideas aren't holding up to my personal scrutiny and I do not think I'm an isolated case. Learning is about attacking ideas to prove their merit, as well.
    - tchaffee 6y ago
      > Blacklist to denylist is a very recent thing. Believe me, I've been watching this happen over the past few weeks. It is not. That's exactly why I suggested you do a search and prove yourself wrong. Just as one of many examples, here is Google talking about it 2 years ago: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=842296 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=842296 Which itself cites a source from 2014. If you look hard enough you can find sources going all the way back to the 1970s talking about these exact words and why they are problematic. This is not new. It's just finally hitting the knee of the curve and loads of companies are doing this all at the same time.
      - cameronbrown 6y ago
        Sorry, point withdrawn!

cameronbrown 6y ago

> The continued use of the word black to mean "evil" in the workplace and white to mean "good" while those terms both also apply to people's race is the history of the past few decades. Humongous strawman. Blacklists aren't inherently 'bad', but you've applied that label to it. You could just as easily argue that blacklists are good, i.e. prevent DoS attacks or spam. Conversely you can argue that whitelists are good. > A simple search will help you educate yourself about the specific PoC who have complained in various formats including scholarly articles, presentations at public meetings, as well as editorials, and blogs. No, the onus is on you if you want to change language. It is not something people will just do without being convinced.

tchaffee 6y ago
Again, I'm not changing the language. It's using one word instead of another. Big companies have already replaced "blacklist" with "denylist" long ago, and you are going to see more and more of this as time goes on. There is zero onus on me. I just have to watch it happen. The onus is on you to catch up with and understand why companies are doing it. Most people who don't like social change are going to write it off and dismiss it. But if you want to know the real motivations and positive impact it has, you can learn.
- cameronbrown 6y ago
  Blacklist to denylist is a very recent thing. Believe me, I've been watching this happen over the past few weeks. There's been talk for a long time but these changes are recent, and clearly a response to American politics right now. I'm not denying positive motivations, I'm just skeptical of the actual impact, which is why we're having this discussion. I'm happy to be convinced, but these ideas aren't holding up to my personal scrutiny and I do not think I'm an isolated case. Learning is about attacking ideas to prove their merit, as well.
  - tchaffee 6y ago
    > Blacklist to denylist is a very recent thing. Believe me, I've been watching this happen over the past few weeks. It is not. That's exactly why I suggested you do a search and prove yourself wrong. Just as one of many examples, here is Google talking about it 2 years ago: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=842296 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=842296 Which itself cites a source from 2014. If you look hard enough you can find sources going all the way back to the 1970s talking about these exact words and why they are problematic. This is not new. It's just finally hitting the knee of the curve and loads of companies are doing this all at the same time.
    - cameronbrown 6y ago
      Sorry, point withdrawn!