6 ms·

Would you sell a man a gun if they told you: "hey, if you sell this to me, I'm going to go shoot that black kid outside", and then showed you a few videos of

Would you sell a man a gun if they told you: "hey, if you sell this to me, I'm going to go shoot that black kid outside", and then showed you a few videos of them doing this before?

umvi 6y ago
Well in this case since they showed me video evidence of murder, I would call the police (assuming I don't live in a CHAZ zone). This is bogus though. Will Home Depot allow me to buy some rope if I declare to a random employee that I plan on using it to do a lynching on my local colored neighbors? Yes, they will. Does that make Home Depot an immoral organization? Nope.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  > if I declare to a random employee that I plan on using it to do a lynching on my local colored neighbors? Yes, they will. Does that make Home Depot an immoral organization? Nope. I'd hope (and expect!) that home depot employees would ask you to leave if you made those statements while trying to purchase rope.
  - umvi 6y ago
    They might, but I doubt it. Especially if I made the comments in jest. "What's all that rope for?" "A lynching wink" Home Depot (the company) will not make any effort to ban me from using their chain even if an employee did make me leave the premises. I could just go home and order it online from HomeDepot.com and have it shipped right to me.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      You're sort of moving the goalposts here: when/if you have knowledge that someone is going to do something immoral, there may be an expectation to avoid supporting it. If you can't reasonably have been assumed to have knowledge of the bad thing, then there can't be an expectation to have done anything different, because you couldn't have known. So, much as after you kick someone out of your store they could order on the home depot website, they could also just go to Lowe's and say nothing. Neither company is really to blame in that case. On the other hand, I wouldn't say that you shouldn't escalate to law enforcement if someone is threatening to go lynch someone in your presence.
- karpierz 6y ago
  You've avoided the question. Suppose that they'd already been on trial for it, found guilty and served their time. Do you sell them the gun, knowing that they intend to use it for violence? If you showed Home Depot sufficient evidence that you intended to lynch someone with it, and it was Home Depot's policy that we sell rope even if it's used for murder, then yes. I think the issue in your example is that you haven't made the corporate policy clear and you haven't made it clear that the employee is convinced of what you're about to do.
  - umvi 6y ago
    Your examples are extremely contrived. > Suppose that they'd already been on trial for it, found guilty and served their time Ok, so I'm supposing a convicted felon is trying to purchase a gun, which is illegal under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1). > Do you sell them the gun, knowing that they intend to use it for violence? No, I do not sell them the gun, because it would be illegal to do so. === Bottom line, I believe in "innocent until proven guilty." I don't deny services or tools to someone legally able to purchase it because I think they might use it to commit a future crime. I might report them to authorities if my suspicions are backed by evidence, but it's not my job to prevent future crimes. If I work at a glass blowing shop and someone wants me to create a custom bong for them, I wouldn't deny them because they might use it to smoke illegal drugs. Who knows, they might be scientists that need it to conduct a study.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      Why are you equivocating smoking and lynching?
      - umvi 6y ago
        I'm not, I'm just generalizing the stance to whether people have a responsibility of "preventing future crimes" when considering whether to offer services to clientele.
        joshuamorton 6y ago

Would you sell a man a gun if they told you: "hey, if you sell this to me, I'm going to go shoot that black kid outside", and then showed you a few videos of them doing this before?

umvi 6y ago

Well in this case since they showed me video evidence of murder, I would call the police (assuming I don't live in a CHAZ zone). This is bogus though. Will Home Depot allow me to buy some rope if I declare to a random employee that I plan on using it to do a lynching on my local colored neighbors? Yes, they will. Does that make Home Depot an immoral organization? Nope.

joshuamorton 6y ago
> if I declare to a random employee that I plan on using it to do a lynching on my local colored neighbors? Yes, they will. Does that make Home Depot an immoral organization? Nope. I'd hope (and expect!) that home depot employees would ask you to leave if you made those statements while trying to purchase rope.
- umvi 6y ago
  They might, but I doubt it. Especially if I made the comments in jest. "What's all that rope for?" "A lynching wink" Home Depot (the company) will not make any effort to ban me from using their chain even if an employee did make me leave the premises. I could just go home and order it online from HomeDepot.com and have it shipped right to me.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    You're sort of moving the goalposts here: when/if you have knowledge that someone is going to do something immoral, there may be an expectation to avoid supporting it. If you can't reasonably have been assumed to have knowledge of the bad thing, then there can't be an expectation to have done anything different, because you couldn't have known. So, much as after you kick someone out of your store they could order on the home depot website, they could also just go to Lowe's and say nothing. Neither company is really to blame in that case. On the other hand, I wouldn't say that you shouldn't escalate to law enforcement if someone is threatening to go lynch someone in your presence.
karpierz 6y ago
You've avoided the question. Suppose that they'd already been on trial for it, found guilty and served their time. Do you sell them the gun, knowing that they intend to use it for violence? If you showed Home Depot sufficient evidence that you intended to lynch someone with it, and it was Home Depot's policy that we sell rope even if it's used for murder, then yes. I think the issue in your example is that you haven't made the corporate policy clear and you haven't made it clear that the employee is convinced of what you're about to do.
- umvi 6y ago
  Your examples are extremely contrived. > Suppose that they'd already been on trial for it, found guilty and served their time Ok, so I'm supposing a convicted felon is trying to purchase a gun, which is illegal under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1). > Do you sell them the gun, knowing that they intend to use it for violence? No, I do not sell them the gun, because it would be illegal to do so. === Bottom line, I believe in "innocent until proven guilty." I don't deny services or tools to someone legally able to purchase it because I think they might use it to commit a future crime. I might report them to authorities if my suspicions are backed by evidence, but it's not my job to prevent future crimes. If I work at a glass blowing shop and someone wants me to create a custom bong for them, I wouldn't deny them because they might use it to smoke illegal drugs. Who knows, they might be scientists that need it to conduct a study.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    Why are you equivocating smoking and lynching?
    - umvi 6y ago
      I'm not, I'm just generalizing the stance to whether people have a responsibility of "preventing future crimes" when considering whether to offer services to clientele.
      - joshuamorton 6y ago