6 ms·

> What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. They have a problem with their employer, and are bein

> What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. They have a problem with their employer, and are being heard in the court of public opinion. Why is that "a bummer"? I don't have a particular opinion on whether or not what they are doing is an effective way to accomplish their aims. But workers speaking out for any reason, ranging from unethical wage suppression to insufficient toilet breaks to disagreement with company policy, should always be cause for rejoicing. Employers in the US hold a wildly disparate amount of power (with health insurance being tied to employment, and no social safety net) – so employees that speak out tend to help tilt that balance a very tiny bit back to the side of the employee.

rattray 6y ago
Yeah, that's a good question. I think that's why this case upsets me. I want to live in a world where, as another commenter put it, executives will think twice before taking actions that they know their employees won't like. Because they should know that employees have power, and a voice, and must be listened to. In this case, there's no way the executives can sanely take the requested action. It'd be terribly damaging to their business. (I may be wrong about this, but it's what I would think if I were an executive). So now if I'm an executive, I have to roll my eyes at the protesting employees. They lose credibility. I'll know that next time I do something they ask for, they'll just ask me for something I can't do. That's what bums be out.
- ironmagma 6y ago
  To suggest that Github “can’t” end this contract is crazy talk. If a huge chunk of the company won’t do it, they must end the project.
dnissley 6y ago
> They have a problem with their employer, and are being heard in the court of public opinion. Why is that "a bummer"? The court of public opinion doesn't have a good track record, for one. It's decisions are often based on fashion more than any kind of ethical principles. A classic exploration of this phenomenon is contained in the novel The Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe.
- o10449366 6y ago
  I haven't read that book. Can you provide some examples supporting the claim that the "court of public opinion" doesn't have a good track record?
  - jlokier 6y ago
    > Can you provide some examples supporting the claim that the "court of public opinion" doesn't have a good track record? Does the regular outcome of popular votes in favour of shafting minorities, restricting human rights etc. rather than general fairness and dignity for all persons regardless of background count?
    - quadrifoliate 6y ago
      "Popular" votes often differ substantially from actual public opinion due to things like gerrymandering, the two-party system, absence of ranked-choice voting, voter suppression, and the the like.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - dnissley 6y ago
    Really all you need to do is google "twitter mob". The most common cases involve people who did something bad, but where the punishment meted out was totally disproportional to the crime itself. Justine Sacco is the classic case, who made a bad joke and had her life turned upside down. Then you have the cases where people are so full of emotion that they get basic facts wrong. James Damore is a good example of this, who many media outlets falsely claimed had written in his infamous memo that women were inferior to men in terms of software engineering ability. Just go on twitter or facebook and take a look at how issues are being discussed. Even here on hacker news it's sometimes difficult to have sense making discussions because people are in such a rush to judgement.
    - 6y ago

rattray 6y ago

Yeah, that's a good question. I think that's why this case upsets me. I want to live in a world where, as another commenter put it, executives will think twice before taking actions that they know their employees won't like. Because they should know that employees have power, and a voice, and must be listened to. In this case, there's no way the executives can sanely take the requested action. It'd be terribly damaging to their business. (I may be wrong about this, but it's what I would think if I were an executive). So now if I'm an executive, I have to roll my eyes at the protesting employees. They lose credibility. I'll know that next time I do something they ask for, they'll just ask me for something I can't do. That's what bums be out.

ironmagma 6y ago
To suggest that Github “can’t” end this contract is crazy talk. If a huge chunk of the company won’t do it, they must end the project.

dnissley 6y ago

> They have a problem with their employer, and are being heard in the court of public opinion. Why is that "a bummer"? The court of public opinion doesn't have a good track record, for one. It's decisions are often based on fashion more than any kind of ethical principles. A classic exploration of this phenomenon is contained in the novel The Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe.

o10449366 6y ago
I haven't read that book. Can you provide some examples supporting the claim that the "court of public opinion" doesn't have a good track record?
- jlokier 6y ago
  > Can you provide some examples supporting the claim that the "court of public opinion" doesn't have a good track record? Does the regular outcome of popular votes in favour of shafting minorities, restricting human rights etc. rather than general fairness and dignity for all persons regardless of background count?
  - quadrifoliate 6y ago
    "Popular" votes often differ substantially from actual public opinion due to things like gerrymandering, the two-party system, absence of ranked-choice voting, voter suppression, and the the like.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- dnissley 6y ago
  Really all you need to do is google "twitter mob". The most common cases involve people who did something bad, but where the punishment meted out was totally disproportional to the crime itself. Justine Sacco is the classic case, who made a bad joke and had her life turned upside down. Then you have the cases where people are so full of emotion that they get basic facts wrong. James Damore is a good example of this, who many media outlets falsely claimed had written in his infamous memo that women were inferior to men in terms of software engineering ability. Just go on twitter or facebook and take a look at how issues are being discussed. Even here on hacker news it's sometimes difficult to have sense making discussions because people are in such a rush to judgement.
  - 6y ago