7 ms·

Slippery slopes are not always a fallacy, roughly the same way appeal to authority is not a fallacy when the authority is indeed an expert. Relevant: https://w

Slippery slopes are not always a fallacy, roughly the same way appeal to authority is not a fallacy when the authority is indeed an expert. Relevant: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Kbm6QnJv9dgWsPHQP/schelling-fences-on-slippery-slopes https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Kbm6QnJv9dgWsPHQP/schelling-...

dominotw 6y ago
> when the authority is indeed an expert. can someone be a considered authority without being an expert. edit: I am using authority from the example in wikipedia "One example of the use of the appeal to authority in science dates to 1923,[20] when leading American zoologist Theophilus Painter declared, based on poor data and conflicting observations he had made,[21][22] that humans had 24 pairs of chromosomes. From the 1920s until 1956,[23] scientists propagated this "fact" based on Painter's authority" Painter presumably was an expert. So not sure why you are saying why its ok if the person is an expert. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- protomyth 6y ago
  Some political appointees could probably be considered an authority by title and not a subject expert. That might hold true for some ambassadors. I guess it really depends on what exact definition of authority you are using.
- jayd16 6y ago
  Your boss, an elder, a church and lots of others can be authorities without being experts in the topic at hand.
- flyinglizard 6y ago
  Yes; government ministers/secretaries come to mind.
- Klinky 6y ago
  Parents, older siblings, managers/bosses, almost any TV personality. Also you might have someone who has a profession in the topic at hand, but isn't an expert. Like your older cousin who is a first-year Comp Sci major probably isn't the hacking/security expert you should be appealing to.
karpierz 6y ago
Appeal to authority is a fallacy, because "authority says X is true doesn't imply X is true". If an expert says "X is true", it's not true because they're an expert, it's true because they provide evidence that shows that X is true.
nordsieck 6y ago
> appeal to authority is not a fallacy when the authority is indeed an expert. Sure it is. The point of the fallacy is that an argument should stand on its own merit, and has nothing to do with the person making it. Guess what - experts can be wrong too (e.g. hand washing).
- enobrev 6y ago
  What about hand-washing?
  - nordsieck 6y ago
    > What about hand-washing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz_Semmelweis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz...
    - enobrev 6y ago
      Thank you. I was worried it was going to be like the salmonella thing where it turned out washing a chicken* is terrible advice because it spreads it everywhere and so it turns out that every time I wash my hands after handling deliveries, I'm now covering my kitchen with Covid sauce. I'm very happy that's not the case. * I've never washed a chicken, but I've definitely seen and heard the advice before.
- Kinrany 6y ago
  An expert can be wrong, but a layperson is more likely to be wrong. "Experts are wrong" is sometimes common knowledge, but "I know better than experts" is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence. Appealing to an expert should not be an instant win, but an argument can be valid and useful without being sufficient to end the discussion.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- afiori 6y ago
  In practice it is about phrasing "expert said that, so it must be true" is a fallacy, reaching a consensus via a relevant authority is not.
licebmi__at__ 6y ago
Appeal of authority is a logical fallacy, even if an expert is use to argue. That alone doesn't mean that the expert is wrong, nor does invalidate the argument, as not all the arguments need to be strictly logical (logic <> truth).

dominotw 6y ago

> when the authority is indeed an expert. can someone be a considered authority without being an expert. edit: I am using authority from the example in wikipedia "One example of the use of the appeal to authority in science dates to 1923,[20] when leading American zoologist Theophilus Painter declared, based on poor data and conflicting observations he had made,[21][22] that humans had 24 pairs of chromosomes. From the 1920s until 1956,[23] scientists propagated this "fact" based on Painter's authority" Painter presumably was an expert. So not sure why you are saying why its ok if the person is an expert. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
protomyth 6y ago
Some political appointees could probably be considered an authority by title and not a subject expert. That might hold true for some ambassadors. I guess it really depends on what exact definition of authority you are using.
jayd16 6y ago
Your boss, an elder, a church and lots of others can be authorities without being experts in the topic at hand.
flyinglizard 6y ago
Yes; government ministers/secretaries come to mind.
Klinky 6y ago
Parents, older siblings, managers/bosses, almost any TV personality. Also you might have someone who has a profession in the topic at hand, but isn't an expert. Like your older cousin who is a first-year Comp Sci major probably isn't the hacking/security expert you should be appealing to.

karpierz 6y ago

Appeal to authority is a fallacy, because "authority says X is true doesn't imply X is true". If an expert says "X is true", it's not true because they're an expert, it's true because they provide evidence that shows that X is true.

nordsieck 6y ago

> appeal to authority is not a fallacy when the authority is indeed an expert. Sure it is. The point of the fallacy is that an argument should stand on its own merit, and has nothing to do with the person making it. Guess what - experts can be wrong too (e.g. hand washing).

enobrev 6y ago
What about hand-washing?
- nordsieck 6y ago
  > What about hand-washing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz_Semmelweis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz...
  - enobrev 6y ago
    Thank you. I was worried it was going to be like the salmonella thing where it turned out washing a chicken* is terrible advice because it spreads it everywhere and so it turns out that every time I wash my hands after handling deliveries, I'm now covering my kitchen with Covid sauce. I'm very happy that's not the case. * I've never washed a chicken, but I've definitely seen and heard the advice before.
Kinrany 6y ago
An expert can be wrong, but a layperson is more likely to be wrong. "Experts are wrong" is sometimes common knowledge, but "I know better than experts" is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence. Appealing to an expert should not be an instant win, but an argument can be valid and useful without being sufficient to end the discussion.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
afiori 6y ago
In practice it is about phrasing "expert said that, so it must be true" is a fallacy, reaching a consensus via a relevant authority is not.

licebmi__at__ 6y ago

Appeal of authority is a logical fallacy, even if an expert is use to argue. That alone doesn't mean that the expert is wrong, nor does invalidate the argument, as not all the arguments need to be strictly logical (logic <> truth).