4 ms·

She beat the game of insuring flights, what's wrong about it to have police arrest her? She played fair, rules were set by those companies.

by larodi 6y ago

t0mas88 6y ago
I guess the part where she used 20 fake identities to hide her tracks is illegal?
- huffmsa 6y ago
  Yeah, sounds like she broke a few laws RE identity and falsifying information about some of the cancellations. Nothing wrong about finding an informational edge over the insurance companies.
  - nvr219 6y ago
    She got greedy!
- lucianbr 6y ago
  Ok, fake identities are illegal. But why would she need to hide her tracks? Was there something else illegal in the first place, that would necessitate her using fake identities to hide? What?
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    Well, if I were to do something like this one of the first assumptions I would make is if I use the same identity for each refund they will soon catch on that I have gotten a lot of refunds and shut me down.
  - WJW 6y ago
    You can only get one insurance policy per flight per identity and the maximum profit per policy is limited. So to increase profits you can get more identities and then get more insurance. Kinda how some people have dozens of dropbox accounts to take advantage of the free storage every account gets.
    - webmaven 6y ago
      > Kinda how some people have dozens of dropbox accounts to take advantage of the free storage every account gets. That's only part of the story (and trying to manage storage across multiple Dropbox accounts is a pain). The real benefit would be the expanded free storage your primary account gets as a referral incentive.
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    Have you considered that taking out insurance for a flight you don't intend to take, with the intent to defraud the insurance company, might be illegal?
    - Ajedi32 6y ago
      That's a circular argument. Fraud is illegal by definition. The question is: what is it that makes this fraud? (Besides the fake identities.) Was there something in the contract requiring clients to only take out policies on airline tickets they actually intended to use to travel? (The article suggests there wasn't prior to this incident.)
- joshvm 6y ago
  Double insurance isn't necessarily illegal on its own, but some insurance companies will say it's a policy violation to do it. Claiming is another matter. Double dipping car insurance is definitely illegal in the US. That said, in principle it's analogous to placing two bets from different bookies. Most of the time if you double insured, you'd just lose twice as much money. You'd probably need to look into exactly what constitutes insurance fraud. In this case it's probably fine, because the event actually happened and she was entitled to claim. The identity fraud bit is really the problem here though.
- aaron695 6y ago
  She didn't use fake identities, she booked on the behalf of family and friends. The insurance also didn't require the person to have checked in.
wackro 6y ago
Not sure if you read the article. She was using multiple identities to take out policies, which in anyone's juristiction is fraud.
- DarthGhandi 6y ago
  Don't get in the way of a good HN China circlejerk. I've given up arguing against certain people on the matter.
iforgotpassword 6y ago
Creating fake identities is playing fair? In which country?
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  IIRC you can have as many names as you want in the U.S as long as you are not using them for fraudulent purposes.
  - teruakohatu 6y ago
    She could not have actually gotten on those flights unless she had fake ID, so then entire purpose was to claim insurance for flights she could not get on. Surely that is fraud just about anywhere.
    - jacobush 6y ago
      It's also wire fraud, and securities fraud. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-26/everything-everywhere-is-securities-fraud https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-26/everyt...
    - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
      the question was not whether she committed fraud or not, the question was: "Creating fake identities is playing fair? In which country?" The question supposed that creating fake identities was by itself unfair, but in the U.S other conditions must also apply for it to be considered unfair.
    - larodi 6y ago
      all identities here on this board are fake to certain degree...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - emiliobumachar 6y ago
    Excuse me, that sounds implausible. Could, say, any U.S. citizen able to drive legally get a driver's license under a made-up name, as long as they only used it for lawful driving?
Melting_Harps 6y ago
> She played fair, rules were set by those companies. She assumed she could win in a crooked game by playing fair and by the rules? This is China, the CCP own everything, and having someone take 'advantage' of a seemingly cunning and thoughtful hedging system is actually quite ingenious, but consider the follow: > But once the flight is delayed, Li said she would make use of one of the insurance company rules that did not require the insured themselves to apply for compensation, and proceed to get compensation from the company. Traders make the same bets all day by shorting stocks and currencies, but if you try this with the CCP I'd be surprised if this woman not only had all her money and property stolen from her, but she ended up in some labor camp in the South to appease the 'great leader' and was forced to make some forced apology that was subject to the same 1984 style two minutes of Hate.
- cheez 6y ago
  Uh buddy the same thing happens here if you manage to find a loophole that makes you rich, you're a criminal.
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > Uh buddy the same thing happens here if you manage to find a loophole that makes you rich, you're a criminal. Really? John Corzine (a former Senator) and MF Global would disagree with your premise; as well as a long list of bankers at Citi, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs etc... They make the rules, we don't; they win, we lose.
    - cheez 6y ago
      Not sure what you're trying to say. If _we_ found a loophole that took money away from the big boys, we would be criminals. Look no further than Nav Singh for proof. He was taking money away from the HFTs and was criminalized for it.
xxs 6y ago
On top of all other siblings say about reading the article/identity fraud. Similar behavior might be considered insurance fraud - esp. since she had information leading her to the decision. Insurance fraud is a crime under a lot of jurisdictions too.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
She did not play fair, she knowingly defrauded the insurance company. Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's legal. I mean you can beat the game of security tags at shops, you'd still be a thief.
globular-toast 6y ago
Insurance fraud is its own special area in law. It's not a game to be played. It's not a free market to be exploited. If the courts say it's fraud then it's fraud and this is pretty obviously fraud. This is the same in England, the US, China, and probably everywhere else in the world.

She beat the game of insuring flights, what's wrong about it to have police arrest her? She played fair, rules were set by those companies.

by larodi 6y ago

She beat the game of insuring flights, what's wrong about it to have police arrest her? She played fair, rules were set by those companies.

t0mas88 6y ago

I guess the part where she used 20 fake identities to hide her tracks is illegal?

huffmsa 6y ago
Yeah, sounds like she broke a few laws RE identity and falsifying information about some of the cancellations. Nothing wrong about finding an informational edge over the insurance companies.
- nvr219 6y ago
  She got greedy!
lucianbr 6y ago
Ok, fake identities are illegal. But why would she need to hide her tracks? Was there something else illegal in the first place, that would necessitate her using fake identities to hide? What?
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  Well, if I were to do something like this one of the first assumptions I would make is if I use the same identity for each refund they will soon catch on that I have gotten a lot of refunds and shut me down.
- WJW 6y ago
  You can only get one insurance policy per flight per identity and the maximum profit per policy is limited. So to increase profits you can get more identities and then get more insurance. Kinda how some people have dozens of dropbox accounts to take advantage of the free storage every account gets.
  - webmaven 6y ago
    > Kinda how some people have dozens of dropbox accounts to take advantage of the free storage every account gets. That's only part of the story (and trying to manage storage across multiple Dropbox accounts is a pain). The real benefit would be the expanded free storage your primary account gets as a referral incentive.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  Have you considered that taking out insurance for a flight you don't intend to take, with the intent to defraud the insurance company, might be illegal?
  - Ajedi32 6y ago
    That's a circular argument. Fraud is illegal by definition. The question is: what is it that makes this fraud? (Besides the fake identities.) Was there something in the contract requiring clients to only take out policies on airline tickets they actually intended to use to travel? (The article suggests there wasn't prior to this incident.)
joshvm 6y ago
Double insurance isn't necessarily illegal on its own, but some insurance companies will say it's a policy violation to do it. Claiming is another matter. Double dipping car insurance is definitely illegal in the US. That said, in principle it's analogous to placing two bets from different bookies. Most of the time if you double insured, you'd just lose twice as much money. You'd probably need to look into exactly what constitutes insurance fraud. In this case it's probably fine, because the event actually happened and she was entitled to claim. The identity fraud bit is really the problem here though.
aaron695 6y ago
She didn't use fake identities, she booked on the behalf of family and friends. The insurance also didn't require the person to have checked in.

wackro 6y ago

Not sure if you read the article. She was using multiple identities to take out policies, which in anyone's juristiction is fraud.

DarthGhandi 6y ago
Don't get in the way of a good HN China circlejerk. I've given up arguing against certain people on the matter.

iforgotpassword 6y ago

Creating fake identities is playing fair? In which country?

bryanrasmussen 6y ago
IIRC you can have as many names as you want in the U.S as long as you are not using them for fraudulent purposes.
- teruakohatu 6y ago
  She could not have actually gotten on those flights unless she had fake ID, so then entire purpose was to claim insurance for flights she could not get on. Surely that is fraud just about anywhere.
  - jacobush 6y ago
    It's also wire fraud, and securities fraud. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-26/everything-everywhere-is-securities-fraud https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-26/everyt...
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    the question was not whether she committed fraud or not, the question was: "Creating fake identities is playing fair? In which country?" The question supposed that creating fake identities was by itself unfair, but in the U.S other conditions must also apply for it to be considered unfair.
  - larodi 6y ago
    all identities here on this board are fake to certain degree...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- emiliobumachar 6y ago
  Excuse me, that sounds implausible. Could, say, any U.S. citizen able to drive legally get a driver's license under a made-up name, as long as they only used it for lawful driving?

Melting_Harps 6y ago

> She played fair, rules were set by those companies. She assumed she could win in a crooked game by playing fair and by the rules? This is China, the CCP own everything, and having someone take 'advantage' of a seemingly cunning and thoughtful hedging system is actually quite ingenious, but consider the follow: > But once the flight is delayed, Li said she would make use of one of the insurance company rules that did not require the insured themselves to apply for compensation, and proceed to get compensation from the company. Traders make the same bets all day by shorting stocks and currencies, but if you try this with the CCP I'd be surprised if this woman not only had all her money and property stolen from her, but she ended up in some labor camp in the South to appease the 'great leader' and was forced to make some forced apology that was subject to the same 1984 style two minutes of Hate.

cheez 6y ago
Uh buddy the same thing happens here if you manage to find a loophole that makes you rich, you're a criminal.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > Uh buddy the same thing happens here if you manage to find a loophole that makes you rich, you're a criminal. Really? John Corzine (a former Senator) and MF Global would disagree with your premise; as well as a long list of bankers at Citi, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs etc... They make the rules, we don't; they win, we lose.
  - cheez 6y ago
    Not sure what you're trying to say. If _we_ found a loophole that took money away from the big boys, we would be criminals. Look no further than Nav Singh for proof. He was taking money away from the HFTs and was criminalized for it.

xxs 6y ago

On top of all other siblings say about reading the article/identity fraud. Similar behavior might be considered insurance fraud - esp. since she had information leading her to the decision. Insurance fraud is a crime under a lot of jurisdictions too.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

She did not play fair, she knowingly defrauded the insurance company. Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's legal. I mean you can beat the game of security tags at shops, you'd still be a thief.

globular-toast 6y ago

Insurance fraud is its own special area in law. It's not a game to be played. It's not a free market to be exploited. If the courts say it's fraud then it's fraud and this is pretty obviously fraud. This is the same in England, the US, China, and probably everywhere else in the world.