6 ms·

Don't throw all police officers into one bucket. You have some outliers that are violent and the rest just does their job - keeping the city more safe. Also d

by krzyk 6y ago

Don't throw all police officers into one bucket. You have some outliers that are violent and the rest just does their job - keeping the city more safe. Also don't assume all cases of police officer shooting a person are cases of police brutality - this is for court to prove.

watwut 6y ago
If this would be the case, the rest would report the violent ones, would testify against them and violent ones would be removed. This would happen in cases where is no video and no public outcry. That it does not seem to be happening unless there is video and public outcry suggest the issue is cultural and institutional, not just individual. The good cop is not reporting bad cop and is not testifying against him. Maybe the good cop would be retaliated against, maybe nothing would be done, and all of those are reasons why bad cops are empowered.
- krzyk 6y ago
  Would you report your fellow in company that e.g. goes late to work? Or uses corporate assets (printer, laptop) for personal things? This is similar, if you know someone you have less incentive to report on one. The better you know them, the higher is the bar for reporting.
  - deathcakes 6y ago
    I would report someone in my company who attacked someone else with no provocation. Or murdered someone. I don't think this comparison is as good as you think it is.
    - sethammons 6y ago
      Would you tell on your loved one, good friend, and/or favorite cousin if they attacked someone? What if you could rationalize what they did? What if you told on them and that meant turning your back on the rest of your family and them all shunning you, or hurting and harassing you? I think we need some massive overhauling of how accountability works in police situations and I think that will have to start with shit rolling uphill.
      - deathcakes 6y ago
        Oh no, I fully agree with you - in a normal organisation that respects operating according to the burden of responsibility placed on it, reporting these things would be a duty. As things stand, it is seen as betrayal of the 'brotherhood' which is why it needs to be brought down.
        sethammons 6y ago
        We agree. I was pointing out how it is different than if you saw it at the office. The brotherhood term is very relevant. Not sure why I was downvoted.
      - jennyyang 6y ago
        This is the problem. The family should reject the violent individual and turn in the person as a collective. If the police were genuinely "good", they would act as a unit and reject the bad ones. In fact, the opposite happens, and they keep silent when bad cops commit crimes, and they reject the good ones who try to actually try to be good. This is the culture that needs to be destroyed and rebuilt.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    No, someone showing up late to work and someone else violently beating or murdering a citizen is not the same thing. At all. Those two scenarios are so far apart, attempting to draw a comparison is disturbing.
    - krzyk 6y ago
      OK, let me make it more clear. Let's assume two cases: 1. A programmer, his work involves programming (obvious), going to meetings, printing some reports/codes etc. The biggest problem he can do is introduce bugs in code by mistake (yes, lives can be lost that way), would you expect his peers to tell on him that he was the guy that introduced a bug that killed 300 people in a plane crash? 2. A cop, his job involves preventing crimes, event violent ones, so he sometimes need to use his gun to prevent some of it, and sometimes he has to shoot a criminal. His mistakes might be killing innocent person. Same thing can happen to his colleagues, so they protect him (just like any sane community would, like your family) - at least unless he turns out to be some sick sociopath. Do you see relevance now? If you play with code you can just break code, if you play with guns you can break lives. A side from that I don't get it why there are so many people that trash cops, but don't say a bad word about looters. Cops protect us from crimes, small and big. They provide order, there are always black sheep, but there are less of those than you think - good guys also make mistakes. Without a force that provides protection from crimes we would turn into vendetta like justice - have you been to countries that just went out of war? e.g. after the fall of Yugoslavia, there was no police there only tribe and vendetta justice. Each utopia turns into dystopia sooner or later (CHAZ).
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        Your example excludes intent. If I thought my coworker had deliberately introduced a bug that killed 300 people, I would absolutely turn them in. There is absolutely no question in my mind that I would do that. But cops do not turn in their own when they deliberately abuse their power. They in fact resign in protest when their own are investigated (Buffalo, NY), and turn out in support when their own are arraigned for abuses of power (Philadelphia, PA).
  - watwut 6y ago
    > Would you report your fellow in company that e.g. goes late to work? Or uses corporate assets (printer, laptop) for personal things? If I reported that someone is using corporate assets (printer, laptop) for personal things, my manager would consider me crazy. If I reported someone being bit late, it would be the same. That is exactly the culture thing. The corporate printer or laptop being used is not being seen as an issue by me, you or anybody else, regardless of what official rules say.
monadic2 6y ago
This is difficult when police literally have a union. If the union were acting in good faith they would be eager to learn & fire. Instead we get the “blue wall of silence” & turn otherwise “good” cops into ones indistinguishable from “bad” cops. I mean there’s even a “good cop/bad cop” trope that’s got to be the best example of this kind of behavior—I can’t count how many times police are complicit with straight up torture and abuse of rights on Law & Order.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
OscarCunningham 6y ago
Watch the videos and pay attention to what the other police do when their colleagues misbehave. They can commit these crimes because no one will stop them.
pjc50 6y ago
The NYPD challenge coins tell a very different story: https://researchdestroy.com/nypd-challenge-coins.pdf https://researchdestroy.com/nypd-challenge-coins.pdf "The 81st Precinct covers Bedford-Stuyvesant and Stuyvesant Heights. The NYPD Tapes were secret recordings made by whistleblower officer Adrian Schoolcraft in 2008-2009 proving widespread corruption and abuse in the precinct. After voicing his complaints internally, he faced harrassment by fellow officers. High-ranking NYPD officials eventually ordered an illegal SWAT raid on his apartment, physically abducting him and involuntarily committing him to a psychiatric facility for six days. The license plate “54-EDP” references a “10-54 EDP” call, in which a so-called “emotionally disturbed person” is taken to a hospital via ambulance. The quote is the Deputy Chief ’s recorded order to remove “rat” Schoolcraft to the hospital." NYPD have made it very clear that if you're a "good" cop, the rest of the cops will destroy you.
ashtonkem 6y ago
Why don’t the good ones arrest the bad ones then? Or even testify in court?
- krzyk 6y ago
  The world is not black and white. There is some evil that is done by good guys, and a tribe/community protects them. This is normal human behavior. Sociopaths are a minority. Would you protect your child if he/she did a hit&run? Would you report him/her right away?
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    I would turn in a colleague if they did a hit and run, which is much closer to what we’re talking about. That appears to be something cops are incapable of doing.

by krzyk 6y ago

watwut 6y ago

If this would be the case, the rest would report the violent ones, would testify against them and violent ones would be removed. This would happen in cases where is no video and no public outcry. That it does not seem to be happening unless there is video and public outcry suggest the issue is cultural and institutional, not just individual. The good cop is not reporting bad cop and is not testifying against him. Maybe the good cop would be retaliated against, maybe nothing would be done, and all of those are reasons why bad cops are empowered.

krzyk 6y ago
Would you report your fellow in company that e.g. goes late to work? Or uses corporate assets (printer, laptop) for personal things? This is similar, if you know someone you have less incentive to report on one. The better you know them, the higher is the bar for reporting.
- deathcakes 6y ago
  I would report someone in my company who attacked someone else with no provocation. Or murdered someone. I don't think this comparison is as good as you think it is.
  - sethammons 6y ago
    Would you tell on your loved one, good friend, and/or favorite cousin if they attacked someone? What if you could rationalize what they did? What if you told on them and that meant turning your back on the rest of your family and them all shunning you, or hurting and harassing you? I think we need some massive overhauling of how accountability works in police situations and I think that will have to start with shit rolling uphill.
    - deathcakes 6y ago
      Oh no, I fully agree with you - in a normal organisation that respects operating according to the burden of responsibility placed on it, reporting these things would be a duty. As things stand, it is seen as betrayal of the 'brotherhood' which is why it needs to be brought down.
      - sethammons 6y ago
        We agree. I was pointing out how it is different than if you saw it at the office. The brotherhood term is very relevant. Not sure why I was downvoted.
    - jennyyang 6y ago
      This is the problem. The family should reject the violent individual and turn in the person as a collective. If the police were genuinely "good", they would act as a unit and reject the bad ones. In fact, the opposite happens, and they keep silent when bad cops commit crimes, and they reject the good ones who try to actually try to be good. This is the culture that needs to be destroyed and rebuilt.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  No, someone showing up late to work and someone else violently beating or murdering a citizen is not the same thing. At all. Those two scenarios are so far apart, attempting to draw a comparison is disturbing.
  - krzyk 6y ago
    OK, let me make it more clear. Let's assume two cases: 1. A programmer, his work involves programming (obvious), going to meetings, printing some reports/codes etc. The biggest problem he can do is introduce bugs in code by mistake (yes, lives can be lost that way), would you expect his peers to tell on him that he was the guy that introduced a bug that killed 300 people in a plane crash? 2. A cop, his job involves preventing crimes, event violent ones, so he sometimes need to use his gun to prevent some of it, and sometimes he has to shoot a criminal. His mistakes might be killing innocent person. Same thing can happen to his colleagues, so they protect him (just like any sane community would, like your family) - at least unless he turns out to be some sick sociopath. Do you see relevance now? If you play with code you can just break code, if you play with guns you can break lives. A side from that I don't get it why there are so many people that trash cops, but don't say a bad word about looters. Cops protect us from crimes, small and big. They provide order, there are always black sheep, but there are less of those than you think - good guys also make mistakes. Without a force that provides protection from crimes we would turn into vendetta like justice - have you been to countries that just went out of war? e.g. after the fall of Yugoslavia, there was no police there only tribe and vendetta justice. Each utopia turns into dystopia sooner or later (CHAZ).
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      Your example excludes intent. If I thought my coworker had deliberately introduced a bug that killed 300 people, I would absolutely turn them in. There is absolutely no question in my mind that I would do that. But cops do not turn in their own when they deliberately abuse their power. They in fact resign in protest when their own are investigated (Buffalo, NY), and turn out in support when their own are arraigned for abuses of power (Philadelphia, PA).
- watwut 6y ago
  > Would you report your fellow in company that e.g. goes late to work? Or uses corporate assets (printer, laptop) for personal things? If I reported that someone is using corporate assets (printer, laptop) for personal things, my manager would consider me crazy. If I reported someone being bit late, it would be the same. That is exactly the culture thing. The corporate printer or laptop being used is not being seen as an issue by me, you or anybody else, regardless of what official rules say.

monadic2 6y ago

This is difficult when police literally have a union. If the union were acting in good faith they would be eager to learn & fire. Instead we get the “blue wall of silence” & turn otherwise “good” cops into ones indistinguishable from “bad” cops. I mean there’s even a “good cop/bad cop” trope that’s got to be the best example of this kind of behavior—I can’t count how many times police are complicit with straight up torture and abuse of rights on Law & Order.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

OscarCunningham 6y ago

Watch the videos and pay attention to what the other police do when their colleagues misbehave. They can commit these crimes because no one will stop them.

pjc50 6y ago

The NYPD challenge coins tell a very different story: https://researchdestroy.com/nypd-challenge-coins.pdf https://researchdestroy.com/nypd-challenge-coins.pdf "The 81st Precinct covers Bedford-Stuyvesant and Stuyvesant Heights. The NYPD Tapes were secret recordings made by whistleblower officer Adrian Schoolcraft in 2008-2009 proving widespread corruption and abuse in the precinct. After voicing his complaints internally, he faced harrassment by fellow officers. High-ranking NYPD officials eventually ordered an illegal SWAT raid on his apartment, physically abducting him and involuntarily committing him to a psychiatric facility for six days. The license plate “54-EDP” references a “10-54 EDP” call, in which a so-called “emotionally disturbed person” is taken to a hospital via ambulance. The quote is the Deputy Chief ’s recorded order to remove “rat” Schoolcraft to the hospital." NYPD have made it very clear that if you're a "good" cop, the rest of the cops will destroy you.

ashtonkem 6y ago

Why don’t the good ones arrest the bad ones then? Or even testify in court?

krzyk 6y ago
The world is not black and white. There is some evil that is done by good guys, and a tribe/community protects them. This is normal human behavior. Sociopaths are a minority. Would you protect your child if he/she did a hit&run? Would you report him/her right away?
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  I would turn in a colleague if they did a hit and run, which is much closer to what we’re talking about. That appears to be something cops are incapable of doing.