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Well that pretty much negates the "A few bad Apples" line. The whole basket is rotten. It is very obvious that the issue is training and hiring requirements. A

Well that pretty much negates the "A few bad Apples" line. The whole basket is rotten. It is very obvious that the issue is training and hiring requirements. Add military arms to the equation and you have an even bigger Problem. Why is it that when I get pulled over I am the one that is trying the deescalate the situation? And this is all before you add the racism issue into the pot.

threatofrain 6y ago
I would also ask, with regards to things like the black site in Chicago where police kidnapped and tortured people for years as an institution, how many bad apples is that? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-poli... And how many more good apples would we have to add to correct a situation like this? Three, perhaps? Would we need to find as many as 3 more good apples?
- sschueller 6y ago
  I don't know how it is with apples but with potatoes you need to get rid of the whole lot if you find just one with mold on it.
tracker1 6y ago
It really depends.. there are like 17k police agencies..., assuming that the average is 100 officers per agency that/s 1.7 million... further assuming 1/2 the offenses are bogus, meaning 40k/1700k meaning a 0.02% bad cop.. or 2:100. Given it's a high stress job, which lends to certain personality profiles over others, it's still pretty bad. Now, that's also assuming those infractions are the worst kinds, which most won't be. Repeat offenses within a given timeframe are more serious though. And I'd like to see soft limits on infractions in a ~5yr window leading to automatic dismissal. For that matter, up to 2% of the worst offenders being able to be dismissed per year as policy (this is where the union becomes a problem) as a possibility. There are other things that could improve things, mostly around required camera footage being taken, and publicly accessible. There are of course caveats.
- bluesign 6y ago
  30k dismissed from 85k is very high ratio. That clearly shows 85k is very low number to begin with. And these numbers are for last 10 years.
  - tracker1 6y ago
    I wasn't aware it was for 10 years... yeah, that's really low in general. I was under the impression it was a single year, I only quickly skimmed TFA.
majewsky 6y ago
> Well that pretty much negates the "A few bad Apples" line. The whole basket is rotten. Well technically it proves the line. The full phrase is "A few bad apples spoil the entire lot". Spoiled apples emit ethylene which causes the surrounding apples to spoil faster.
- me_me_me 6y ago
  That is surprisingly apt comparison. Violent/racist cops protected by their organization will cause others who were hiding their tendencies to be embolden, further spoiling the basket.

threatofrain 6y ago

I would also ask, with regards to things like the black site in Chicago where police kidnapped and tortured people for years as an institution, how many bad apples is that? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-poli... And how many more good apples would we have to add to correct a situation like this? Three, perhaps? Would we need to find as many as 3 more good apples?

sschueller 6y ago
I don't know how it is with apples but with potatoes you need to get rid of the whole lot if you find just one with mold on it.

tracker1 6y ago

It really depends.. there are like 17k police agencies..., assuming that the average is 100 officers per agency that/s 1.7 million... further assuming 1/2 the offenses are bogus, meaning 40k/1700k meaning a 0.02% bad cop.. or 2:100. Given it's a high stress job, which lends to certain personality profiles over others, it's still pretty bad. Now, that's also assuming those infractions are the worst kinds, which most won't be. Repeat offenses within a given timeframe are more serious though. And I'd like to see soft limits on infractions in a ~5yr window leading to automatic dismissal. For that matter, up to 2% of the worst offenders being able to be dismissed per year as policy (this is where the union becomes a problem) as a possibility. There are other things that could improve things, mostly around required camera footage being taken, and publicly accessible. There are of course caveats.

bluesign 6y ago
30k dismissed from 85k is very high ratio. That clearly shows 85k is very low number to begin with. And these numbers are for last 10 years.
- tracker1 6y ago
  I wasn't aware it was for 10 years... yeah, that's really low in general. I was under the impression it was a single year, I only quickly skimmed TFA.

majewsky 6y ago

> Well that pretty much negates the "A few bad Apples" line. The whole basket is rotten. Well technically it proves the line. The full phrase is "A few bad apples spoil the entire lot". Spoiled apples emit ethylene which causes the surrounding apples to spoil faster.

me_me_me 6y ago
That is surprisingly apt comparison. Violent/racist cops protected by their organization will cause others who were hiding their tendencies to be embolden, further spoiling the basket.