5 ms·

Dream of cellphone manufacturers. Phone dies beyond repair right after 2 year contract. What can be better!? Edit: my wife still uses iPhone 6, I recently buil

by lnsru 6y ago

Dream of cellphone manufacturers. Phone dies beyond repair right after 2 year contract. What can be better!? Edit: my wife still uses iPhone 6, I recently build dedicated Linux machine with my 8 year old FX-8350 CPU with ancient mainboard. The world with disposable electronics is closer and closer. I bet, exact lifetime can be precisely simulated with software from the companies mentioned in the article.

smolder 6y ago
The world of disposable electronics is definitely something we would be moving away from if we were smart enough to cooperate a bit as a species. We should be managing complete product life cycles for the best efficiency by way of recycling, reuse, durable designs, etc.
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
I feel you and it's not really a reason to throw it away, but that FX CPU uses more power than modern CPUs for similar performance. I also like my old car and I'll keep it as long as I can but I'm aware a new one would be much more fuel efficient.
- Marsymars 6y ago
  > I also like my old car and I'll keep it as long as I can but I'm aware a new one would be much more fuel efficient. From what I see of comparable-model cars, efficiency gains in engines, aerodynamics, etc. have mostly been offset by safety, emissions, and QoL improvements that have increased weight. For instance, by spec, the most fuel-efficient Corolla was a 1984 model.
  - willis936 6y ago
    I am skeptical of that last sentence. Do you have a source?
    - jtbayly 6y ago
      If you disqualify hybrids and allow diesels... https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=1984&year2=2020&make=Toyota&baseModel=Corolla&srchtyp=ymm https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform... But the weight difference is also substantial between 1984 and 2020 models: 2110 lbs vs 2910 lbs
    - Marsymars 6y ago
      Toyota Corolla Gas Mileage: 1979 – 2013: https://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/11/04/toyota-corolla-gas-mileage/ https://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/11/04/toyota-corolla-gas-mile... Do note the note at the bottom of the table: "Note: the EPA tweaked their testing procedure, starting with the 2008 model year, with the end result being that the 2008 MPG estimates are now lower than previous years" Other compact cars have followed a similar trend where they've gotten much heavier and safer, but fuel economy (in terms of fuel per distance) peaked or stagnated.
- dx034 6y ago
  That's only really relevant for 24/7 operations with considerable load. For home computers and probably even servers with very little load the price of a new CPU won't really offset lower electricity cost.
  - brnt 6y ago
    Depends on whether you switch them on and off to follow load. Newer chips/systems have better idle characteristics so if the system is always on,its probably worth it to upgrade for that reason alone.
- lnsru 6y ago
  Talking about cars: first car was most economical one, second one consumed more because of catalytic converter. Third one is a car for fun not for commuting with massive fuel consumption. Old FX-8350 was available for this one shot Linux project. Normally virtual machine is ok. I had lots of thoughts what I do with good old hardware when upgrading to Ryzen, I delayed it for more than a year. Luckily it was solved this fortunate way and I do not need throw working things away.
  - dannyw 6y ago
    You can also sell old hardware. Someone will find a use for it.
- iforgotpassword 6y ago
  But you have to factor in production of the new system and getting rid of the old one, plus shipping. Those have a toll on the environment too.
jmalicki 6y ago
The lithium ion batteries already die beyond repair on average not long after, so why invest in chips that last longer?
- dx034 6y ago
  Do they? I've never experienced that so early. Most mid-range phones are after two years so slow that they can't handle modern apps which is the most common reason people I know buy new phones. Higher spec smartphones tend to last much longer and can fetch good prices on ebay after two years.
  - jmalicki 6y ago
    A large part of the slowness is due to CPU throttling so the battery won't catch fire. E.g. https://9to5mac.com/2020/01/12/what-is-iphone-throttling-why-does-it-happen/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/01/12/what-is-iphone-throttling-why...
TheRealSteel 6y ago
They don't need to do this, they already just put out an update that makes your existing phone too slow and buggy to use the week they release a new one.

by lnsru 6y ago

smolder 6y ago

The world of disposable electronics is definitely something we would be moving away from if we were smart enough to cooperate a bit as a species. We should be managing complete product life cycles for the best efficiency by way of recycling, reuse, durable designs, etc.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

I feel you and it's not really a reason to throw it away, but that FX CPU uses more power than modern CPUs for similar performance. I also like my old car and I'll keep it as long as I can but I'm aware a new one would be much more fuel efficient.

Marsymars 6y ago
> I also like my old car and I'll keep it as long as I can but I'm aware a new one would be much more fuel efficient. From what I see of comparable-model cars, efficiency gains in engines, aerodynamics, etc. have mostly been offset by safety, emissions, and QoL improvements that have increased weight. For instance, by spec, the most fuel-efficient Corolla was a 1984 model.
- willis936 6y ago
  I am skeptical of that last sentence. Do you have a source?
  - jtbayly 6y ago
    If you disqualify hybrids and allow diesels... https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=1984&year2=2020&make=Toyota&baseModel=Corolla&srchtyp=ymm https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform... But the weight difference is also substantial between 1984 and 2020 models: 2110 lbs vs 2910 lbs
  - Marsymars 6y ago
    Toyota Corolla Gas Mileage: 1979 – 2013: https://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/11/04/toyota-corolla-gas-mileage/ https://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/11/04/toyota-corolla-gas-mile... Do note the note at the bottom of the table: "Note: the EPA tweaked their testing procedure, starting with the 2008 model year, with the end result being that the 2008 MPG estimates are now lower than previous years" Other compact cars have followed a similar trend where they've gotten much heavier and safer, but fuel economy (in terms of fuel per distance) peaked or stagnated.
dx034 6y ago
That's only really relevant for 24/7 operations with considerable load. For home computers and probably even servers with very little load the price of a new CPU won't really offset lower electricity cost.
- brnt 6y ago
  Depends on whether you switch them on and off to follow load. Newer chips/systems have better idle characteristics so if the system is always on,its probably worth it to upgrade for that reason alone.
lnsru 6y ago
Talking about cars: first car was most economical one, second one consumed more because of catalytic converter. Third one is a car for fun not for commuting with massive fuel consumption. Old FX-8350 was available for this one shot Linux project. Normally virtual machine is ok. I had lots of thoughts what I do with good old hardware when upgrading to Ryzen, I delayed it for more than a year. Luckily it was solved this fortunate way and I do not need throw working things away.
- dannyw 6y ago
  You can also sell old hardware. Someone will find a use for it.
iforgotpassword 6y ago
But you have to factor in production of the new system and getting rid of the old one, plus shipping. Those have a toll on the environment too.

jmalicki 6y ago

The lithium ion batteries already die beyond repair on average not long after, so why invest in chips that last longer?

dx034 6y ago
Do they? I've never experienced that so early. Most mid-range phones are after two years so slow that they can't handle modern apps which is the most common reason people I know buy new phones. Higher spec smartphones tend to last much longer and can fetch good prices on ebay after two years.
- jmalicki 6y ago
  A large part of the slowness is due to CPU throttling so the battery won't catch fire. E.g. https://9to5mac.com/2020/01/12/what-is-iphone-throttling-why-does-it-happen/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/01/12/what-is-iphone-throttling-why...

TheRealSteel 6y ago

They don't need to do this, they already just put out an update that makes your existing phone too slow and buggy to use the week they release a new one.