5 ms·

Because the Mac and iDevices revenue streams are not as independent as you imply. Driving the Mac off a cliff would alienate developers and have serious reperc

Because the Mac and iDevices revenue streams are not as independent as you imply. Driving the Mac off a cliff would alienate developers and have serious repercussions on the iOS ecosystem as well. Why do you think Apple still builds Pro apps like Logic and FCP ? They are almost certainly losing money given their ridiculously low price point, but they help with brand image and keeping the Mac the go-to platform for creatives. There’s indirect value in that.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
I mentioned this above—I feel like Apple's pro apps are highly analogous to what happened to the Mac. That doesn't portend a bright future. Apple killed Shake, which was an industry standard at one point. They killed Aperture, which lots of photographers loved. They replaced Final Cut Pro 7 with a much more limited Final Cut X, and seeded lots of ground to Adobe in the process. There's also OS X Server, although there's a strong argument to be made it wouldn't have survived in the modern world anyway, and Apple just saw the writing on the wall. Logic does seem to have done consistently fine, at least, so that's something.
- Jasper_ 6y ago
  Logic pissed off a lot of composers with the lack of 32-bit AUs in newer versions. The few producers I know who love Logic aren't upgrading to Catalina and are already considering switching to Windows.
- pfranz 6y ago
  > Apple killed Shake, which was an industry standard at one point. Sure, and this might be skewed by hindsight because they did make new releases for a handful of years, but it was an acquahire to develop Aperture and other color tools for Final Cut Pro. Small shops use After Effects on Windows, medium shops used Shake on Windows, and large shops used Shake in Linux. Because of hardware costs you'll be very hard-pressed to get medium or large shops to use macOS. I also don't see Apple investing/competing with the big transitions that happened in CG over the next 5 years; 64bit, 4k/8k, and stereo. Apple had special deals where they offered Shake's source code when it was discontinued and a few studios clung on and tried valiantly to accommodate [1] [1] https://www.studiodaily.com/2008/07/delivering-8k-vfx-shots-for-the-dark-knight/ https://www.studiodaily.com/2008/07/delivering-8k-vfx-shots-...
protomyth 6y ago
Driving the Mac off a cliff would alienate developers and have serious repercussions on the iOS ecosystem as well. For iOS Developers, I am not so sure. If Apple came out with Xcode for Windows at WWDC, I'm pretty sure a lot of iOS developers would be overjoyed. Now, a build farm is much easier among other advantages.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  Another possibility: Xcode for iPadOS.
- claudeganon 6y ago
  Apple is terrible at making XCode good, useable software on their own platform. I can't imagine what a nightmare it would be on Windows.
- toyg 6y ago
  Xcode for Windows would quickly end up like all software Apple makes for Windows: buggy, slow, lagging, and unloved. Not that it is much better as it is on Mac...
  - protomyth 6y ago
    I think a large part of their crappy Windows software was there need to make it look like the Macintosh version. I get the feeling if they are putting Xcode on Windows, they will not feel the need to make it anything but a Windows app. I would also imagine they would remove anything having to do with the Macintosh except perhaps the Catalyst compiles which should decrease some of the neglect problems causing bugs.
zeveb 6y ago
> Driving the Mac off a cliff would alienate developer How many, though, and would they really switch to Windows or Linux, or retire from the industry? Apple has always — or at least since 1984 — had an incredibly loyal fanbase. I think that the sort of slights which would make me leave a platform just roll of their collective back.
- Kipters 6y ago
  Since they released their 2016 lineup there has been a shift from Macs to Linux and Windows (just look at how many "I left macOS for {X}" have been published here on HN) Windows is also making a very compelling argument with WSL2
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    there has been a shift from Macs to Linux and Windows As far as I can see the Mac market share hasn't shifted in the last few years. I wouldn't take too much notice of a handful of people whinging on HN.
  - skinnymuch 6y ago
    A tiny vocal minority doesn’t mean much, if anything, in the overall scheme of things. The tiny vocal minorities of various tech/niche/geek sites rarely means anything. You can’t extrapolate from that. No less when it’s not even correct for general trends most of the time.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

I mentioned this above—I feel like Apple's pro apps are highly analogous to what happened to the Mac. That doesn't portend a bright future. Apple killed Shake, which was an industry standard at one point. They killed Aperture, which lots of photographers loved. They replaced Final Cut Pro 7 with a much more limited Final Cut X, and seeded lots of ground to Adobe in the process. There's also OS X Server, although there's a strong argument to be made it wouldn't have survived in the modern world anyway, and Apple just saw the writing on the wall. Logic does seem to have done consistently fine, at least, so that's something.

Jasper_ 6y ago
Logic pissed off a lot of composers with the lack of 32-bit AUs in newer versions. The few producers I know who love Logic aren't upgrading to Catalina and are already considering switching to Windows.
pfranz 6y ago
> Apple killed Shake, which was an industry standard at one point. Sure, and this might be skewed by hindsight because they did make new releases for a handful of years, but it was an acquahire to develop Aperture and other color tools for Final Cut Pro. Small shops use After Effects on Windows, medium shops used Shake on Windows, and large shops used Shake in Linux. Because of hardware costs you'll be very hard-pressed to get medium or large shops to use macOS. I also don't see Apple investing/competing with the big transitions that happened in CG over the next 5 years; 64bit, 4k/8k, and stereo. Apple had special deals where they offered Shake's source code when it was discontinued and a few studios clung on and tried valiantly to accommodate [1] [1] https://www.studiodaily.com/2008/07/delivering-8k-vfx-shots-for-the-dark-knight/ https://www.studiodaily.com/2008/07/delivering-8k-vfx-shots-...

protomyth 6y ago

Driving the Mac off a cliff would alienate developers and have serious repercussions on the iOS ecosystem as well. For iOS Developers, I am not so sure. If Apple came out with Xcode for Windows at WWDC, I'm pretty sure a lot of iOS developers would be overjoyed. Now, a build farm is much easier among other advantages.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
Another possibility: Xcode for iPadOS.
claudeganon 6y ago
Apple is terrible at making XCode good, useable software on their own platform. I can't imagine what a nightmare it would be on Windows.
toyg 6y ago
Xcode for Windows would quickly end up like all software Apple makes for Windows: buggy, slow, lagging, and unloved. Not that it is much better as it is on Mac...
- protomyth 6y ago
  I think a large part of their crappy Windows software was there need to make it look like the Macintosh version. I get the feeling if they are putting Xcode on Windows, they will not feel the need to make it anything but a Windows app. I would also imagine they would remove anything having to do with the Macintosh except perhaps the Catalyst compiles which should decrease some of the neglect problems causing bugs.

zeveb 6y ago

> Driving the Mac off a cliff would alienate developer How many, though, and would they really switch to Windows or Linux, or retire from the industry? Apple has always — or at least since 1984 — had an incredibly loyal fanbase. I think that the sort of slights which would make me leave a platform just roll of their collective back.

Kipters 6y ago
Since they released their 2016 lineup there has been a shift from Macs to Linux and Windows (just look at how many "I left macOS for {X}" have been published here on HN) Windows is also making a very compelling argument with WSL2
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  there has been a shift from Macs to Linux and Windows As far as I can see the Mac market share hasn't shifted in the last few years. I wouldn't take too much notice of a handful of people whinging on HN.
- skinnymuch 6y ago
  A tiny vocal minority doesn’t mean much, if anything, in the overall scheme of things. The tiny vocal minorities of various tech/niche/geek sites rarely means anything. You can’t extrapolate from that. No less when it’s not even correct for general trends most of the time.