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How do you get your daughter into this? Mine just wants to paint and sculpt clay - she hates anything computer related because her school has "STEM" class where

How do you get your daughter into this? Mine just wants to paint and sculpt clay - she hates anything computer related because her school has "STEM" class where the force computers and STEM down their throats. She maintains straight A's in everything except sport so ability isn't her issue. She hates academics in general though, her A's are because she's scared of doing badly / getting attention from her teachers. Maybe mainstream schooling isn't for her. Total shite.

erdaniels 6y ago
What's wrong with wanting to paint and sculpt clay?
- eatYourFood 6y ago
  The most likely outcome with a career in art is living close to poverty.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - AtlasLion 6y ago
    But happy instead of spending your life doing something you don't like and dreaming about "escaping the rat race". Success in life is not measured by how much you own.
    - rebuilder 6y ago
      The arts as a profession really is one of those things where you should only get into it if you are so driven that you have no choice, IMO. More likely than not, you'll be scraping by in poverty for the rest of your life, seeking validation from funding gatekeepers, compromising your work in the process in order to secure funding to do it in the first place. If you can bear the thought of doing some other work, then getting a decent paycheck and having art as more of a hobby or side venture may be much more fulfilling. (And frankly, most people I know in the arts do all kinds of side jobs to pay the bills, anyway.)
    - eatYourFood 6y ago
      I agree that people should be happy. My daughter living in an area where she can't walk at home in the evening is not happy. Not being able to heat your home because you can't afford a decent place with good windows is not happy. Having the other people decide what you can or cannot do because you are not solvent is not happy. She can happily take over as managing partner of my firm if she wants and cash out or use that expensive school education to get a top job and learn to FIRE early; she has options.
  - watwut 6y ago
    That is not actually true. The childhood hobby does not have to convert into profession, in most cases it remains adult hobby. Majority of people dont convert their childhood hobby into a job. Which is absolutely fine. I am not reading horror books for a job either, despite spending awful lot of time with it as a kid and teenager.
- globular-toast 6y ago
  Remember, it's OK to force a child to take an interest in something not generally associated with their gender. But it's not OK to encourage an interest in something that is generally associated with their gender.
thom 6y ago
Your daughter sounds awesome, is there a problem with her being an artist?
- thom 6y ago
  Can't really argue against mainstream schooling often being shite, obviously, and the arts are generally the first thing to be axed. But in case you've not seen it, I often come back to this video when I have any doubt at all about the value of these pursuits, not just as a viable career, but also in finding happiness for my kids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpCIQKSqDd4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpCIQKSqDd4
  - eatYourFood 6y ago
    Thanks for your insight my friend. My left and right brain are fighting each other over that video. On the one hand; what a wonderful story! On the other hand; I'm sure that lady from the story is one in a million. My daughter is still in her teens and she's great at Maths, Science and Art. I have no idea what she will choose to do. I would hate to push her away from something she loves but at the same time I need to ensure she can survive in this world without me. She also has classic Asia mother so I need to handle that too haha. It's tough to be a parent - nobody teaches you how to do this. Nobody you trust anyway.
- eatYourFood 6y ago
  Conventional thinking now says to NOT FOLLOW YOUR PASSION (time's have changed it seems.) I always thought no but then I remember what it was like when I tried to leave home and got paid very little with my working class job. I had to live in one of the roughest parts of the city. My wife is from a poor country too so she's also keen on our daughter being solvent. The chances of her making a decent living from art are close to zero. Some alum came back to present her work at my daughters school, as part of her presentation she mentioned that she works two jobs as a waitress and barista and does her art around that; she's 25 years old..... We're a family that have lived in multiple countries and now run two very successful businesses. It would be odd if our daughter became a struggling artists who no options beyond living in a trash part of a working class town. I have never tried to steer her away from art but as she's getting older I can see that she'll likely ask us to pay for a 6-figure degree in what is effectively a hobby. I want her to be happy but I worry that this world isn't an easy place if you're broke. You don't get to make your own choices, someone else does. We've also told all three of our kids that they can forget sitting around and doing nothing while they wait for their inheritance (as suggested by my youngest son). Both boys are now studying (one economics with an internship at EY and one has just started comp sci). We live a fairly full and busy life with lots of international travel. We always invested heavily in our kids education hoping that will pay off in making them successful, responsible and independent adults. I'd love for one of the kids to take over our consulting firm but if that doesn't happen then I will sell the company and use that to fund a nice retirement. I don't believe in intergenerational wealth and I think inheritance tax should be close to 100%. I appreciate my kids my not like the same things that I do but they have a clear choice, use their elite education to launch themselves into being financially free otherwise follow a hobby / passion and take a gamble on living in an area where you can't walk home safely. I've been in both situations and I know which one I prefer. side note: it would be cool if she made it as an artists though and lived a fulfilling life. I'm just clueless when it comes to the art world and how to not be poor. Maybe it's different in the US but the UK is a fucking depressing place if you're at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
callumprentice 6y ago
She loves doing things with me so when I suggested we have a crack at it, she was all for it. If I'd said let's go eat worms in the garden, she'd probably said the same thing.
watwut 6y ago
First, there is no dichotomy between art and computer. One can like both and learn both. Unfortunately, once someone sees dichotomy, not knowing or liking that other stuff can become identity. Not sure if you met "I can not be artistic/social because I am technical" thing, but opposite "I can not like tech cause I see myself artistic or social" exist too. I agree that there is nothing wrong with being artist, but it is absolutely normal and ok for parent to want to show good in other things. Artistic parents are also teaching their kids to like art and that is good. She does not have to become programmer, but hating computers for being computers will harm and limit her. So, I think that talking to her about what she likes and dislikes, why and how the school approach is putting her off could help. If her distaste is because of school, it would be good to help her separate thing (computer), skill (ability to do stuff with it) and the way they force it on her in school. If she has bad feelings about even touching computer, talking, asking questions and listening helps. Ask questions and listen more, talk less. Also, most of professional drawing is done on computer or tablet these days. Sometimes seeing that the technical is not separate from what you like and can be integral to it can help overcome the hate. If she is watching youtube videos artists make, she must have seen that. There are also easy to use apps that help you make stop motion videos from photos, funny animated stories, 3d modeling and so on. Some of these could help her overcome the dislike. Yet also, making pics of her art, putting it on webpage is something artist might find useful. The point there is that there is not line between computer and art, just a skill you can acquire and use creatively. Also, my daughter had periods where she seen computer related things as boy things (to my great annoyance) and avoided them. Or where she concluded she is naturally bad, because basically someone else knew a little bit more so the other kid looked more talented. There, explaining that it is learnable and showing her how little effort it took to learn more helped a lot.

erdaniels 6y ago

What's wrong with wanting to paint and sculpt clay?

eatYourFood 6y ago
The most likely outcome with a career in art is living close to poverty.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- AtlasLion 6y ago
  But happy instead of spending your life doing something you don't like and dreaming about "escaping the rat race". Success in life is not measured by how much you own.
  - rebuilder 6y ago
    The arts as a profession really is one of those things where you should only get into it if you are so driven that you have no choice, IMO. More likely than not, you'll be scraping by in poverty for the rest of your life, seeking validation from funding gatekeepers, compromising your work in the process in order to secure funding to do it in the first place. If you can bear the thought of doing some other work, then getting a decent paycheck and having art as more of a hobby or side venture may be much more fulfilling. (And frankly, most people I know in the arts do all kinds of side jobs to pay the bills, anyway.)
  - eatYourFood 6y ago
    I agree that people should be happy. My daughter living in an area where she can't walk at home in the evening is not happy. Not being able to heat your home because you can't afford a decent place with good windows is not happy. Having the other people decide what you can or cannot do because you are not solvent is not happy. She can happily take over as managing partner of my firm if she wants and cash out or use that expensive school education to get a top job and learn to FIRE early; she has options.
- watwut 6y ago
  That is not actually true. The childhood hobby does not have to convert into profession, in most cases it remains adult hobby. Majority of people dont convert their childhood hobby into a job. Which is absolutely fine. I am not reading horror books for a job either, despite spending awful lot of time with it as a kid and teenager.
globular-toast 6y ago
Remember, it's OK to force a child to take an interest in something not generally associated with their gender. But it's not OK to encourage an interest in something that is generally associated with their gender.

thom 6y ago

Your daughter sounds awesome, is there a problem with her being an artist?

thom 6y ago
Can't really argue against mainstream schooling often being shite, obviously, and the arts are generally the first thing to be axed. But in case you've not seen it, I often come back to this video when I have any doubt at all about the value of these pursuits, not just as a viable career, but also in finding happiness for my kids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpCIQKSqDd4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpCIQKSqDd4
- eatYourFood 6y ago
  Thanks for your insight my friend. My left and right brain are fighting each other over that video. On the one hand; what a wonderful story! On the other hand; I'm sure that lady from the story is one in a million. My daughter is still in her teens and she's great at Maths, Science and Art. I have no idea what she will choose to do. I would hate to push her away from something she loves but at the same time I need to ensure she can survive in this world without me. She also has classic Asia mother so I need to handle that too haha. It's tough to be a parent - nobody teaches you how to do this. Nobody you trust anyway.
eatYourFood 6y ago
Conventional thinking now says to NOT FOLLOW YOUR PASSION (time's have changed it seems.) I always thought no but then I remember what it was like when I tried to leave home and got paid very little with my working class job. I had to live in one of the roughest parts of the city. My wife is from a poor country too so she's also keen on our daughter being solvent. The chances of her making a decent living from art are close to zero. Some alum came back to present her work at my daughters school, as part of her presentation she mentioned that she works two jobs as a waitress and barista and does her art around that; she's 25 years old..... We're a family that have lived in multiple countries and now run two very successful businesses. It would be odd if our daughter became a struggling artists who no options beyond living in a trash part of a working class town. I have never tried to steer her away from art but as she's getting older I can see that she'll likely ask us to pay for a 6-figure degree in what is effectively a hobby. I want her to be happy but I worry that this world isn't an easy place if you're broke. You don't get to make your own choices, someone else does. We've also told all three of our kids that they can forget sitting around and doing nothing while they wait for their inheritance (as suggested by my youngest son). Both boys are now studying (one economics with an internship at EY and one has just started comp sci). We live a fairly full and busy life with lots of international travel. We always invested heavily in our kids education hoping that will pay off in making them successful, responsible and independent adults. I'd love for one of the kids to take over our consulting firm but if that doesn't happen then I will sell the company and use that to fund a nice retirement. I don't believe in intergenerational wealth and I think inheritance tax should be close to 100%. I appreciate my kids my not like the same things that I do but they have a clear choice, use their elite education to launch themselves into being financially free otherwise follow a hobby / passion and take a gamble on living in an area where you can't walk home safely. I've been in both situations and I know which one I prefer. side note: it would be cool if she made it as an artists though and lived a fulfilling life. I'm just clueless when it comes to the art world and how to not be poor. Maybe it's different in the US but the UK is a fucking depressing place if you're at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

callumprentice 6y ago

She loves doing things with me so when I suggested we have a crack at it, she was all for it. If I'd said let's go eat worms in the garden, she'd probably said the same thing.

watwut 6y ago

First, there is no dichotomy between art and computer. One can like both and learn both. Unfortunately, once someone sees dichotomy, not knowing or liking that other stuff can become identity. Not sure if you met "I can not be artistic/social because I am technical" thing, but opposite "I can not like tech cause I see myself artistic or social" exist too. I agree that there is nothing wrong with being artist, but it is absolutely normal and ok for parent to want to show good in other things. Artistic parents are also teaching their kids to like art and that is good. She does not have to become programmer, but hating computers for being computers will harm and limit her. So, I think that talking to her about what she likes and dislikes, why and how the school approach is putting her off could help. If her distaste is because of school, it would be good to help her separate thing (computer), skill (ability to do stuff with it) and the way they force it on her in school. If she has bad feelings about even touching computer, talking, asking questions and listening helps. Ask questions and listen more, talk less. Also, most of professional drawing is done on computer or tablet these days. Sometimes seeing that the technical is not separate from what you like and can be integral to it can help overcome the hate. If she is watching youtube videos artists make, she must have seen that. There are also easy to use apps that help you make stop motion videos from photos, funny animated stories, 3d modeling and so on. Some of these could help her overcome the dislike. Yet also, making pics of her art, putting it on webpage is something artist might find useful. The point there is that there is not line between computer and art, just a skill you can acquire and use creatively. Also, my daughter had periods where she seen computer related things as boy things (to my great annoyance) and avoided them. Or where she concluded she is naturally bad, because basically someone else knew a little bit more so the other kid looked more talented. There, explaining that it is learnable and showing her how little effort it took to learn more helped a lot.