4 ms·

This is indeed a very positive and smart move. Despite the fact that - a lot of sites just don't really play along (they'll just show you a nag popup that you

by atleta 6y ago

This is indeed a very positive and smart move. Despite the fact that - a lot of sites just don't really play along (they'll just show you a nag popup that you have to OK, but they'll plant their tracking cookies before that anyway) - a lot of sites deliberately make it hard to opt out (this ranges from having to click around in the consent manager to outright sending you to a 20 page PDF that tells you that you can disable cookies in your browser if you want to - this, BTW, is clearly not an acceptable solution according to GDPR), don't show you the content if you don't accept all their tracking cookies (this is also illegal) - some sites just make it a bit harder than it could be (you can see the very same consent boxes on other sites with a more user friendly 'opt out all' option) - some sites do 100% OK But it turns out that 100% OK is still not good enough. This whole thing should really be managed either by the browsers or by an extension and the consent request should come in a standard, machine digestable way (XML, json, what not). You could then just set your preferences once, that should work for most sites and every now and then (but less and less frequently) you'd be asked about what to do with unknown cookies on unknown sites. In short, just because part of the industry is trying to circumvent regulation and because the current implementation is not the most efficient, we should not give up on the whole idea.

CuriousSkeptic 6y ago
Or just tweak the law. Remove informed consent as a legal basis for collecting data on web users. There are probably some context where “informed consent” is a sensible legal basis for processing data. But no-one in their right mind would freely agree to all this tracking that those pop-ups are trying trick you into. So instead of trying to make “consent” easier to give, just assume that is wont be given. I can think of two or three entities I interact with for whom I might enter such a consensual agreement with. Neither are “sites”, and the web is not the primary way I interact with them, so a browser would not be to tool to maintain those agreements.
- atleta 6y ago
  Would that mean a complete ban? I don't think that would be great. There is a lot of value in collecting statistics for the sake of analyzing user behavior. I also see the value in targeted ads and I'd say that it would probably be beneficial for the user (but I always opt out, because it's not worth it for me). Semi-automatic consenting could solve this, I think. E.g. I'm happy to provide non-tracking usage statistics for most small startups and I'm OK with Amazon tracking what I'm looking at on their site so they can give me better recommendations. But I might not know what exactly 'consensual agreement' as a legal expression means. BTW, this is pretty much the same issue as with ToS's. Some sites will try to DoS you.
  - CuriousSkeptic 6y ago
    Consent is only required if there are no other valid reasons for the tracking. Tracking required to provide a service for the user don’t require consent f.ex. So you could still get personalized ads from Amazon as service provided for you without needing explicit consent for the tracking as such. Similarly “non-tracking” analytics don’t require consent either. If you by non-tracking mean more or less anonymous. You only need consent to for processing PII that you don’t have a a legitimate interest to process.
RegW 6y ago
> a lot of sites deliberately make it hard to opt out Amusingly I've just followed a link on HN to The Economist [https://www.economist.com https://www.economist.com] - their popup offers a link to "manage your cookies" where you can untick huge numbers of them or click "Opt Out All". Great - did that, however on returning to the page found the popup still covers part of the page :-) However, we must remember Hanlon's Razor.

by atleta 6y ago

CuriousSkeptic 6y ago

Or just tweak the law. Remove informed consent as a legal basis for collecting data on web users. There are probably some context where “informed consent” is a sensible legal basis for processing data. But no-one in their right mind would freely agree to all this tracking that those pop-ups are trying trick you into. So instead of trying to make “consent” easier to give, just assume that is wont be given. I can think of two or three entities I interact with for whom I might enter such a consensual agreement with. Neither are “sites”, and the web is not the primary way I interact with them, so a browser would not be to tool to maintain those agreements.

atleta 6y ago
Would that mean a complete ban? I don't think that would be great. There is a lot of value in collecting statistics for the sake of analyzing user behavior. I also see the value in targeted ads and I'd say that it would probably be beneficial for the user (but I always opt out, because it's not worth it for me). Semi-automatic consenting could solve this, I think. E.g. I'm happy to provide non-tracking usage statistics for most small startups and I'm OK with Amazon tracking what I'm looking at on their site so they can give me better recommendations. But I might not know what exactly 'consensual agreement' as a legal expression means. BTW, this is pretty much the same issue as with ToS's. Some sites will try to DoS you.
- CuriousSkeptic 6y ago
  Consent is only required if there are no other valid reasons for the tracking. Tracking required to provide a service for the user don’t require consent f.ex. So you could still get personalized ads from Amazon as service provided for you without needing explicit consent for the tracking as such. Similarly “non-tracking” analytics don’t require consent either. If you by non-tracking mean more or less anonymous. You only need consent to for processing PII that you don’t have a a legitimate interest to process.

RegW 6y ago

> a lot of sites deliberately make it hard to opt out Amusingly I've just followed a link on HN to The Economist [https://www.economist.com https://www.economist.com] - their popup offers a link to "manage your cookies" where you can untick huge numbers of them or click "Opt Out All". Great - did that, however on returning to the page found the popup still covers part of the page :-) However, we must remember Hanlon's Razor.