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There is likely to be yet more convergence towards iOS constraints. This seems inevitable, especially if Catalyst is central to how Apple carry out any ARM tran

There is likely to be yet more convergence towards iOS constraints. This seems inevitable, especially if Catalyst is central to how Apple carry out any ARM transition. It's very clear that Apple aren't catering to developers in macOS to the extent that drove OS X growth from 2004. For a time, many developers couldn't find fault with OS X and Mac hardware. I wonder how much more correction we'll see from Apple, now that they've gone back on keyboards to a degree. I'm not counting on too much, I know a lot of people aren't as happy as they could be.

robertoandred 6y ago
Catalyst has nothing to do with ARM Macs.
- unicornfinder 6y ago
  Not directly, no, but it's an excellent reflection of the declining software quality and attention that the Mac is starting to get from Apple...
  - robertoandred 6y ago
    That attention being their work to expand the Mac's software base and its reach with software developers?
yoz-y 6y ago
I really hope Catalyst is a dead end and only exists because they somehow started working on it before realizing SwiftUI was the way forward. I've yet to see a Catalyst app that does not feel like a quickly hacked beta.
- djxfade 6y ago
  A Catalyst app can be implemented with SwiftUI though, I don't see your point
  - yoz-y 6y ago
    Once you have a SwiftUI app you don't need catalyst to make it work on macOS. You can tweak the SwiftUI code specifically and the final user experience will be better. Catalyst only exists because UIKit does not work on macOS.
duskwuff 6y ago
> This seems inevitable, especially if Catalyst is central to how Apple carry out any ARM transition. That seems really unlikely to me. Catalyst is primarily a tool for porting iOS applications to macOS. Apple already has plenty of ARM-based devices that run iOS applications; there's no reason for them to muddy the waters by introducing another one and calling it a macOS system.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  By my count, every new built-in app which Apple has introduced in the past two years has been a Catalyst app. It's possible I'm forgetting one, but the trend is pretty clear. Stock apps set the example for how third party apps should use your platform. IMO, Apple is setting a pretty clear example.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Music, TV, and App Store are “native”. (Yes, they suck.)
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      Wow, those aren't Catalyst?! They certainly fooled me! Mind, I'm not sure that's any better: Apple is still setting a pretty clear example for future Mac apps. Mac-specific UIs are out, iOS-esque paradigms are in.
pier25 6y ago
> For a time, many developers couldn't find fault with OS X and Mac hardware Totally. I bought my first Mac in 2007 and from that moment until 2013 I only had small complaints about the Mac platform. Then my MBP 2011 suddenly died and by the time Apple started a repair program it had been collecting dust for almost 2 years. Then Yosemite came and it was the absolute worst version of macOS I've ever used. These days I'm happy with my iMac 5K but I'm still using High Sierra. I will probably upgrade to Mojave at some point but that's it. I will _not_ upgrade to Catalina. Thank god I don't need Xcode.
unicornfinder 6y ago
Indeed. Been using Macs since 2006 but switched back to Windows late last year after being fed up with the declining quality of Mac software, and the lackluster hardware options. Speaking to friends suggests that I'm far from the only one.
greedo 6y ago
I think this enchanted land ("many developers couldn't find fault with OS X and Mac hardware.") isn't grounded in reality. I only started using Macs around 1999 (though I had an Apple IIc prior. Apple hardware has always had bugs, flaws, and failures. I had a Mac Pro G5 that leaked (it was liquid cooled). I had the first Intel Mac Pro, and the GPU died several times (and was like $700?). Luckily it was covered under warranty. Laptop batteries bulged, screens delaminated, cases displayed wear because wrists get sweaty. iTunes on Windows sucked. And obviously keyboards butterflied. Software has been up and down, sometimes secure, sometimes not. Sometimes fast, sometimes buggy. But the reason the Mac came back was because despite these perennial flaws and issues, it was WORLDs better than the alternative.

robertoandred 6y ago

Catalyst has nothing to do with ARM Macs.

unicornfinder 6y ago
Not directly, no, but it's an excellent reflection of the declining software quality and attention that the Mac is starting to get from Apple...
- robertoandred 6y ago
  That attention being their work to expand the Mac's software base and its reach with software developers?

yoz-y 6y ago

I really hope Catalyst is a dead end and only exists because they somehow started working on it before realizing SwiftUI was the way forward. I've yet to see a Catalyst app that does not feel like a quickly hacked beta.

djxfade 6y ago
A Catalyst app can be implemented with SwiftUI though, I don't see your point
- yoz-y 6y ago
  Once you have a SwiftUI app you don't need catalyst to make it work on macOS. You can tweak the SwiftUI code specifically and the final user experience will be better. Catalyst only exists because UIKit does not work on macOS.

duskwuff 6y ago

> This seems inevitable, especially if Catalyst is central to how Apple carry out any ARM transition. That seems really unlikely to me. Catalyst is primarily a tool for porting iOS applications to macOS. Apple already has plenty of ARM-based devices that run iOS applications; there's no reason for them to muddy the waters by introducing another one and calling it a macOS system.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
By my count, every new built-in app which Apple has introduced in the past two years has been a Catalyst app. It's possible I'm forgetting one, but the trend is pretty clear. Stock apps set the example for how third party apps should use your platform. IMO, Apple is setting a pretty clear example.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Music, TV, and App Store are “native”. (Yes, they suck.)
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    Wow, those aren't Catalyst?! They certainly fooled me! Mind, I'm not sure that's any better: Apple is still setting a pretty clear example for future Mac apps. Mac-specific UIs are out, iOS-esque paradigms are in.

pier25 6y ago

> For a time, many developers couldn't find fault with OS X and Mac hardware Totally. I bought my first Mac in 2007 and from that moment until 2013 I only had small complaints about the Mac platform. Then my MBP 2011 suddenly died and by the time Apple started a repair program it had been collecting dust for almost 2 years. Then Yosemite came and it was the absolute worst version of macOS I've ever used. These days I'm happy with my iMac 5K but I'm still using High Sierra. I will probably upgrade to Mojave at some point but that's it. I will _not_ upgrade to Catalina. Thank god I don't need Xcode.

unicornfinder 6y ago

Indeed. Been using Macs since 2006 but switched back to Windows late last year after being fed up with the declining quality of Mac software, and the lackluster hardware options. Speaking to friends suggests that I'm far from the only one.

greedo 6y ago

I think this enchanted land ("many developers couldn't find fault with OS X and Mac hardware.") isn't grounded in reality. I only started using Macs around 1999 (though I had an Apple IIc prior. Apple hardware has always had bugs, flaws, and failures. I had a Mac Pro G5 that leaked (it was liquid cooled). I had the first Intel Mac Pro, and the GPU died several times (and was like $700?). Luckily it was covered under warranty. Laptop batteries bulged, screens delaminated, cases displayed wear because wrists get sweaty. iTunes on Windows sucked. And obviously keyboards butterflied. Software has been up and down, sometimes secure, sometimes not. Sometimes fast, sometimes buggy. But the reason the Mac came back was because despite these perennial flaws and issues, it was WORLDs better than the alternative.