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This is so strange. If you use facebook, google, netflix, apple, microsoft, amazon, tesla or a whole host of other products and services you are interfacing wit

This is so strange. If you use facebook, google, netflix, apple, microsoft, amazon, tesla or a whole host of other products and services you are interfacing with AI all the time, sometimes as the core product of the service. To think there’s no value there is asinine. Comes up a lot on HN. Seems like people who get excited for these types of articles are set in their ways and don’t want to progress forward.

loopz 6y ago
Yet, every "suggestion" is infinitely worse than "My List", that I curated for myself. Interface hiding the fact of dwindling library and quality of content. Chronology gets perverted with random posts that later can't be easily navigated or referenced. Menu-items unexpectedly fade in and out for unclear reasons and lack of anticipation. In many cases these improvements are to user's detriment and confusion, worsening interface, UX and value for money proposition. In too many areas, end user is themselves the target, for ads, manipulation, propaganda, manufactured outrage and lies.
eanzenberg 6y ago
You may even argue that the richest companies of the western world have AI as their core product. May be causation vs. correlation though.
sk0g 6y ago
It's the cycle of AI. Breakthroughs -> it's going to automate EVERYTHING -> wait maybe not -> breakthroughs...
ashtonkem 6y ago
This strikes me more of people pushing back against the hype than a genuine belief that AI is worthless.
tomp 6y ago
Aside from possibly Google, all of these products / services would have just as much, if not more, value without any AI beyond basic statistics.
- logicslave 6y ago
  Amazon retail is currently in the process of baking advanced deep learning models into every area of their retail process. Its all becoming automated. Just because its not talked about openly doesnt mean its not happening
- stjo 6y ago
  I think the engineers with access to their data know their job. Surely they run a/b tests and know for sure AI improves their metric of choice.
- ppod 6y ago
  That's an illusory distinction.
- hamsterbooster 6y ago
  Many AI systems are used in the backend to increase revenue. Netflix has a very complex recommendation algorithm based on deep learning/statistics. Amazon uses a lot of machine learning to optimize transportation (NP-hard problem!) , sales, etc..
  - cageface 6y ago
    My tastes may be a bit hard to model but I don't get any value from Netflix's recommendation algorithm at all. I find new things on Netflix by reading human curated reviews online and then searching for titles by name.
  - Carpetsmoker 6y ago
    A while ago I watched a 4-part documentary about the every-day lives of ancient Egyptians. Pretty interesting.[1] For weeks after that my recommendations were filled with bullshit such as "PROOF ALIENS BUILT THE PYRAMIDS!" and such. So yeah, maybe those "very complex recommendation algorithm based on deep learning/statistics" is perhaps not always such a great idea. In this particular case, it's just a mere annoyance for me, but imagine a 13-year old watching a few genuine documentary videos on Egypt and then seeing this bullshit; they don't have the capacity I have to see it's bullshit. And imagine if it was on a more serious topic than who built the pyramids... If I were to ask a YouTube engineer "why did I get this recommendation specifically?" then the answer would probably be "dunno". An additional issue is that the YouTube of yesteryear was much better in browsing random videos. Now everything is based on what I've watched before, instead of just "give me a list of science videos" or whatnot. This is also an issue I have with Netflix (or rather, had, since I no longer have an account). It seems to me that inscrutable mindless AI learning has a part in the spread of misinformation and bullshit. I'm not sure how large that part is, but I suspect it's significant. I'm hesitant of the total value in these cases, regardless of what it may do for the bottom line in terms of revenue. [1]: I'll just drop the link to it here in case anyone's interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnsNwwwHm2I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnsNwwwHm2I
stephc_int13 6y ago
So far, I have not been impressed by what Google/FB/Amazon/Microsoft/Apple have done with ML and the oceans of data they have. Mostly boring statistical analysis wrapped in a very power inefficient way.
robbrown451 6y ago
Nah, those aren't AI.... well, not to those who define AI as "things that can be done by humans but not by machines, done by machines." :) It's quite the exercise in goalpost moving.
golemiprague 6y ago
What AI exactly I interface in netflix? Movie recommendations based on some predefined classifications? Search engine? those problems were solved by google 20 years ago. All the recommendation and ad engines are not that smart, far from it, and the smart stuff they do is just by tracking you and looking at what you do, this is not AI, just classic cold war spying. Those siri and alexa are taking commands as if you are programming a device, you just say it rather than write it but the dynamic is the same, they can't process anything even slightly deviating out of their "programming" language. Both sound recognition and all those self driving stuff is more about advanced signal processing rather than some AI and as such are limited and will never be anything even remotely close to the way humans perceive things. They promised deviation from the classic machine "thinking" but rather a foray into the human mind by machine. So far it is a failure, machines keep doing what machines are good at and nothing more.

loopz 6y ago

Yet, every "suggestion" is infinitely worse than "My List", that I curated for myself. Interface hiding the fact of dwindling library and quality of content. Chronology gets perverted with random posts that later can't be easily navigated or referenced. Menu-items unexpectedly fade in and out for unclear reasons and lack of anticipation. In many cases these improvements are to user's detriment and confusion, worsening interface, UX and value for money proposition. In too many areas, end user is themselves the target, for ads, manipulation, propaganda, manufactured outrage and lies.

eanzenberg 6y ago

You may even argue that the richest companies of the western world have AI as their core product. May be causation vs. correlation though.

sk0g 6y ago

It's the cycle of AI. Breakthroughs -> it's going to automate EVERYTHING -> wait maybe not -> breakthroughs...

ashtonkem 6y ago

This strikes me more of people pushing back against the hype than a genuine belief that AI is worthless.

tomp 6y ago

Aside from possibly Google, all of these products / services would have just as much, if not more, value without any AI beyond basic statistics.

logicslave 6y ago
Amazon retail is currently in the process of baking advanced deep learning models into every area of their retail process. Its all becoming automated. Just because its not talked about openly doesnt mean its not happening
stjo 6y ago
I think the engineers with access to their data know their job. Surely they run a/b tests and know for sure AI improves their metric of choice.
ppod 6y ago
That's an illusory distinction.
hamsterbooster 6y ago
Many AI systems are used in the backend to increase revenue. Netflix has a very complex recommendation algorithm based on deep learning/statistics. Amazon uses a lot of machine learning to optimize transportation (NP-hard problem!) , sales, etc..
- cageface 6y ago
  My tastes may be a bit hard to model but I don't get any value from Netflix's recommendation algorithm at all. I find new things on Netflix by reading human curated reviews online and then searching for titles by name.
- Carpetsmoker 6y ago
  A while ago I watched a 4-part documentary about the every-day lives of ancient Egyptians. Pretty interesting.[1] For weeks after that my recommendations were filled with bullshit such as "PROOF ALIENS BUILT THE PYRAMIDS!" and such. So yeah, maybe those "very complex recommendation algorithm based on deep learning/statistics" is perhaps not always such a great idea. In this particular case, it's just a mere annoyance for me, but imagine a 13-year old watching a few genuine documentary videos on Egypt and then seeing this bullshit; they don't have the capacity I have to see it's bullshit. And imagine if it was on a more serious topic than who built the pyramids... If I were to ask a YouTube engineer "why did I get this recommendation specifically?" then the answer would probably be "dunno". An additional issue is that the YouTube of yesteryear was much better in browsing random videos. Now everything is based on what I've watched before, instead of just "give me a list of science videos" or whatnot. This is also an issue I have with Netflix (or rather, had, since I no longer have an account). It seems to me that inscrutable mindless AI learning has a part in the spread of misinformation and bullshit. I'm not sure how large that part is, but I suspect it's significant. I'm hesitant of the total value in these cases, regardless of what it may do for the bottom line in terms of revenue. [1]: I'll just drop the link to it here in case anyone's interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnsNwwwHm2I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnsNwwwHm2I

stephc_int13 6y ago

So far, I have not been impressed by what Google/FB/Amazon/Microsoft/Apple have done with ML and the oceans of data they have. Mostly boring statistical analysis wrapped in a very power inefficient way.

robbrown451 6y ago

Nah, those aren't AI.... well, not to those who define AI as "things that can be done by humans but not by machines, done by machines." :) It's quite the exercise in goalpost moving.

golemiprague 6y ago

What AI exactly I interface in netflix? Movie recommendations based on some predefined classifications? Search engine? those problems were solved by google 20 years ago. All the recommendation and ad engines are not that smart, far from it, and the smart stuff they do is just by tracking you and looking at what you do, this is not AI, just classic cold war spying. Those siri and alexa are taking commands as if you are programming a device, you just say it rather than write it but the dynamic is the same, they can't process anything even slightly deviating out of their "programming" language. Both sound recognition and all those self driving stuff is more about advanced signal processing rather than some AI and as such are limited and will never be anything even remotely close to the way humans perceive things. They promised deviation from the classic machine "thinking" but rather a foray into the human mind by machine. So far it is a failure, machines keep doing what machines are good at and nothing more.