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The answer is that, by and large, it doesn't occur to them. I'm a Canadian who spent my college years in America, and was honestly completely aghast at the whol

The answer is that, by and large, it doesn't occur to them. I'm a Canadian who spent my college years in America, and was honestly completely aghast at the whole society and most especially how it is reflected in their media and public "discourse" (culture≠media, yes, but it's disingenuous to say that the constant diet of vitriol, propaganda, and pure unreason would have no effect on the national character). It genuinely doesn't occur to them (generally): the country is myopic, and hypocrisy means nothing when you're ignorant of any inconsistency. (Queue the whataboutism, or deflection, or whichever fallacy of the day)

refurb 6y ago
As a Canadian who has lived in the US is it all that different? What I’ve observed is the US is very upfront and unapologetic about it. While countries like Canada and those in the EU are much more discrete. Take Omar Khadr for example. Canada was more than happy to help the US with that “terrorist”, no questions asked. While at the same time “tsk tsk-ing” about how the US is handling the situation. The hypocrisy is something else.
- freshhawk 6y ago
  That's definitely true, America is leading the charge in the "mask off" era. That is a good point. Canada and Europe have the same problems mostly, not as bad (sometimes not nearly as bad), but hide it much more carefully. And there is a lot of misplaced pride in being "better than the US" for things where that is the lowest bar.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Expanding on that, I think the “mask off” thing is why Trump got elected. Rather than a smooth talker politician who lies to you with a smile on their face, Trump drops the pretense. He’s an asshole and doesn’t try and hide it.
- bonchicbongenre 6y ago
  Oh yeah, absolutely. The whole world order is broken, and I'm not at all happy with Canada's milquetoast responses to myriad issues (Omar Khadr, yes, but also not more strongly responding to the Uighur's treatment, or dealing with our own racism, or our own policing issues, etc etc etc). Re public discourse specifically it's a matter of degree though, and my real experience is that I've been able to have more reasonable conversations with those I disagree with here (and in Europe) than would've been conceivable there, even though all mentioned societies harbour evils. I certainly don't mean to discount the numerous problems that Canada and other countries have, and I have no pleasure in bashing America (rather, I'm deeply, deeply sad to feel this way about a country that I was taught as a child represented ideals of justice and opportunity). I more meant that I'm not at all hopeful for nonviolent progress in America, given the impossibility of discourse and cultural disdain for self-reflection or external perspective, whereas I still hold hope for other societies that (maybe too optimistically) are broken but not irreparably Sorry if that's too depressed, but it's my genuine impression :( for context, I left the States to do my grad studies elsewhere, having been seriously depressed by my inability to effect any meaningful change (volunteering to teach low-income children only does so much good in a system that keeps them low income; peaceful protest is ignored; organizing philanthropy has benefits but ignores root issues; I ran into institutional barriers at every step). I'm in Canada now, and while I'm still fighting against the same injustices and remain supremely disappointed in the national and world state of affairs, I feel much less hopeless here, and that I have been able to do more (although not nearly enough) good without being stymied in a system that quashes discourse by default

refurb 6y ago

As a Canadian who has lived in the US is it all that different? What I’ve observed is the US is very upfront and unapologetic about it. While countries like Canada and those in the EU are much more discrete. Take Omar Khadr for example. Canada was more than happy to help the US with that “terrorist”, no questions asked. While at the same time “tsk tsk-ing” about how the US is handling the situation. The hypocrisy is something else.

freshhawk 6y ago
That's definitely true, America is leading the charge in the "mask off" era. That is a good point. Canada and Europe have the same problems mostly, not as bad (sometimes not nearly as bad), but hide it much more carefully. And there is a lot of misplaced pride in being "better than the US" for things where that is the lowest bar.
- refurb 6y ago
  Expanding on that, I think the “mask off” thing is why Trump got elected. Rather than a smooth talker politician who lies to you with a smile on their face, Trump drops the pretense. He’s an asshole and doesn’t try and hide it.
bonchicbongenre 6y ago
Oh yeah, absolutely. The whole world order is broken, and I'm not at all happy with Canada's milquetoast responses to myriad issues (Omar Khadr, yes, but also not more strongly responding to the Uighur's treatment, or dealing with our own racism, or our own policing issues, etc etc etc). Re public discourse specifically it's a matter of degree though, and my real experience is that I've been able to have more reasonable conversations with those I disagree with here (and in Europe) than would've been conceivable there, even though all mentioned societies harbour evils. I certainly don't mean to discount the numerous problems that Canada and other countries have, and I have no pleasure in bashing America (rather, I'm deeply, deeply sad to feel this way about a country that I was taught as a child represented ideals of justice and opportunity). I more meant that I'm not at all hopeful for nonviolent progress in America, given the impossibility of discourse and cultural disdain for self-reflection or external perspective, whereas I still hold hope for other societies that (maybe too optimistically) are broken but not irreparably Sorry if that's too depressed, but it's my genuine impression :( for context, I left the States to do my grad studies elsewhere, having been seriously depressed by my inability to effect any meaningful change (volunteering to teach low-income children only does so much good in a system that keeps them low income; peaceful protest is ignored; organizing philanthropy has benefits but ignores root issues; I ran into institutional barriers at every step). I'm in Canada now, and while I'm still fighting against the same injustices and remain supremely disappointed in the national and world state of affairs, I feel much less hopeless here, and that I have been able to do more (although not nearly enough) good without being stymied in a system that quashes discourse by default