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Why do you assume this is driven by anger and that the worries here are "coddling" and a "weaker society"? Why can't this simply be "hey, that term has some ser

Why do you assume this is driven by anger and that the worries here are "coddling" and a "weaker society"? Why can't this simply be "hey, that term has some serious historical baggage and it doesn't sit right with some people, why not change it? As a white person, the term "slave" in distributed systems always made me feel that way. Not as much for master and whitelist/blacklist personally, but I see no harm in transitioning our terminology away from these types of terms. It's simply a subconscious effect that helps engrain bad defaults we shouldn't be teaching people like "white good, black bad". Study after study has shown that has bigger psychological effects. None of that has to do with anger. Can we please get rid of this narrative about "coddling" and "triggering" and "anger" when the reasoning for changing terminology has nothing to do with it?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dingaling 6y ago
Can you avoid using the term 'triggering' please, it has connotations of shooting people. See how deep this rabbit hole goes...
- adjkant 6y ago
  Linguistic meaning changes all the time without the world burning down, so I'm really curious what danger you think there is in this "rabbit hole". Or do you also oppose using "awful" to be a negative, because if we accept that, how far does the rabbit hole go? Look at how many words we use without these types of issues too! If you're worried about keeping up with a few intentional linguistic changes a year among many other natural ones, I'd be more concerned elsewhere.
  - cczizou 6y ago
    This is a good point. Language has original meaning and cultural meaning.
- cczizou 6y ago
  Slippery slopes on slippery slopes.
loceng 6y ago
Once again re: "white good, black bad" - that's language differentiation issue that's talking about colour, not race. The solution is to help people heal from past and ongoing reasons why they may be unreasonable triggered by those terms, by fixing the actual fucking problem instead of quelling some emotion in a very shallow way. Do we dumb down our language to appeal to every less capable person's abilities? How large or small of a group size to we appeal to? How do you determine that? So let me get this straight, you're wanting to switch away from master-slave in the context of programming - and now you're wanting me or "us" to stop using the words coddling, triggering, and anger - arguably because you're creating a strawman argument to defend? Is instead that you're simply just not understanding fully what I am saying, like the people misassociating master-slave to human slavery, and so I need to arguably simplify my arguments simply because it "doesn't sit right" with you? Do you see the slippery slope insanity of your process yet? What does "not sitting right with some people" mean to you? Are you suggesting that anything that "doesn't sit right with some people" we should just change? When do we stop, who's the arbiter of it - you? Or maybe instead we hold integrity for proper language use, people developing emotion regulation, and helping people heal past and ongoing trauma by fixing the structural-systemic sources of their trauma, fear-anger? Explaining to them "master-slave in programming isn't referring to human slavery, and X, Y, Z is what we're going to do to help fix up this fucked up system." Do you see logical fallacy and potential irony in your statements? And maybe that "slave" in distributed systems always made you feel a certain way is you in fact not differentiating, wrongly connecting, the term to human slavery - attached to it? There are practices of mindfulness like meditation that can allow you sit with and analyze and differentiate by learning to detach to let those improper associations/attachments and the emotions they stir to settle, to not come up - so you don't react and then you refine and hone your sharpness of associations. Do you or have you ever had a mindfulness practice?
- adjkant 6y ago
  I don't think this is going to be productive if you ignore the vast psychological research that shows this is not about intelligence or capability like you keep trying to argue and I have never said. This is not about a misunderstanding of language or "misassociation". This is about the very nature of humans. > and now you're wanting me or "us" to stop using the words coddling, triggering, and anger It's ironic this followed by accusing me of a straw man while doing that quite liberally to what I said. I said nothing of the words, I am referring to your line of argument. Those words are simply the typical ones that are often signifiers of the same argument which people have had to waste time on again and again instead of addressing the actual issue here, which I mentioned at length at this post and the parent but you didn't address at all.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

dingaling 6y ago

Can you avoid using the term 'triggering' please, it has connotations of shooting people. See how deep this rabbit hole goes...

adjkant 6y ago
Linguistic meaning changes all the time without the world burning down, so I'm really curious what danger you think there is in this "rabbit hole". Or do you also oppose using "awful" to be a negative, because if we accept that, how far does the rabbit hole go? Look at how many words we use without these types of issues too! If you're worried about keeping up with a few intentional linguistic changes a year among many other natural ones, I'd be more concerned elsewhere.
- cczizou 6y ago
  This is a good point. Language has original meaning and cultural meaning.
cczizou 6y ago
Slippery slopes on slippery slopes.

loceng 6y ago

Once again re: "white good, black bad" - that's language differentiation issue that's talking about colour, not race. The solution is to help people heal from past and ongoing reasons why they may be unreasonable triggered by those terms, by fixing the actual fucking problem instead of quelling some emotion in a very shallow way. Do we dumb down our language to appeal to every less capable person's abilities? How large or small of a group size to we appeal to? How do you determine that? So let me get this straight, you're wanting to switch away from master-slave in the context of programming - and now you're wanting me or "us" to stop using the words coddling, triggering, and anger - arguably because you're creating a strawman argument to defend? Is instead that you're simply just not understanding fully what I am saying, like the people misassociating master-slave to human slavery, and so I need to arguably simplify my arguments simply because it "doesn't sit right" with you? Do you see the slippery slope insanity of your process yet? What does "not sitting right with some people" mean to you? Are you suggesting that anything that "doesn't sit right with some people" we should just change? When do we stop, who's the arbiter of it - you? Or maybe instead we hold integrity for proper language use, people developing emotion regulation, and helping people heal past and ongoing trauma by fixing the structural-systemic sources of their trauma, fear-anger? Explaining to them "master-slave in programming isn't referring to human slavery, and X, Y, Z is what we're going to do to help fix up this fucked up system." Do you see logical fallacy and potential irony in your statements? And maybe that "slave" in distributed systems always made you feel a certain way is you in fact not differentiating, wrongly connecting, the term to human slavery - attached to it? There are practices of mindfulness like meditation that can allow you sit with and analyze and differentiate by learning to detach to let those improper associations/attachments and the emotions they stir to settle, to not come up - so you don't react and then you refine and hone your sharpness of associations. Do you or have you ever had a mindfulness practice?

adjkant 6y ago
I don't think this is going to be productive if you ignore the vast psychological research that shows this is not about intelligence or capability like you keep trying to argue and I have never said. This is not about a misunderstanding of language or "misassociation". This is about the very nature of humans. > and now you're wanting me or "us" to stop using the words coddling, triggering, and anger It's ironic this followed by accusing me of a straw man while doing that quite liberally to what I said. I said nothing of the words, I am referring to your line of argument. Those words are simply the typical ones that are often signifiers of the same argument which people have had to waste time on again and again instead of addressing the actual issue here, which I mentioned at length at this post and the parent but you didn't address at all.