4 ms·

You've made the massive leap that the words blacklist/whitelist are microaggressions. Not to mention the science of microaggressions is not even remotely settle

You've made the massive leap that the words blacklist/whitelist are microaggressions. Not to mention the science of microaggressions is not even remotely settled.

tchaffee 6y ago
> You've made the massive leap that the words blacklist/whitelist are microaggressions. It isn't a massive leap. Kermit A. Crawford, Ph.D talks about these specific terms and that they are microagressions in this presentation: https://www.appic.org/Portals/0/2018%20Conference/APPIC%202018%20%286%20update%205-3%29.pdf https://www.appic.org/Portals/0/2018%20Conference/APPIC%2020.... You can find sources going all the way back to the 1970s talking about these terms and how they relate to racism. It's only a massive leap if you have not done the homework and if you have not talked to black colleagues in our industry about what they consider to be microagressions. > Not to mention the science of microaggressions is not even remotely settled. You are moving the goal posts. You said you don't care to "have newspeak forced on me without real evidence". Then when presented with scholarly studies and real evidence of psychological damage, you claim the evidence is not good enough.
- cameronbrown 6y ago
  > You are moving the goal posts. A reasonable statement, however I don't consider one paper to be enough evidence for restructuring the entire English language to avoid white/black, light/dark concepts. Not to mention academia is a massive political bubble which is clearly influencing the social sciences right now. We're clearly not going to see eye to eye here - but I wish you a good day.
  - tchaffee 6y ago
    > restructuring the entire English language That's a strawman. No one is restructuring the entire English language. There is a small list of words used in technology that companies are changing to more accurate words. "denylist" and "allowlist" are clearer in purpose and intent than "blacklist".
    - cameronbrown 6y ago
      [deleted]
      - tchaffee 6y ago
        Why does replacing a handful of offensive terms with more accurate words require "restructuring the entire English language"? Unless you can make a case for that, the logical conclusion is that those handful of words will go out of favor and the impact to the "entire English language" will be negligible.
        cameronbrown 6y ago
        [deleted]
        DanBC 6y ago
        > just because America has a racism problem. > I, and my country, do not share these problems. Your country definitely has a racism problem. Where do you live? We'll give you a fucking enormous list of both the historic racism and current day racism for that country.
        cameronbrown 6y ago
        Cops aren't gunning people down in my country, so no, I think things are fine here.
        orthecreedence 6y ago
        > Why does replacing a handful of offensive terms You want to rewrite parts the language because a few people are offended? Do you realize how often people are offended at the most miniscule and obnoxious things? I think the slippery slope argument applies here. Secondly, from looking at the history of the term whitelist/blacklist, they are not rooted racially. Why does there need to be any more discussion here? This isn't PoC crying for change. This is a bunch of privileged white people sitting around wondering what words they should replace while PoC are getting gunned down by the powers that be.

You've made the massive leap that the words blacklist/whitelist are microaggressions. Not to mention the science of microaggressions is not even remotely settled.

tchaffee 6y ago

> You've made the massive leap that the words blacklist/whitelist are microaggressions. It isn't a massive leap. Kermit A. Crawford, Ph.D talks about these specific terms and that they are microagressions in this presentation: https://www.appic.org/Portals/0/2018%20Conference/APPIC%202018%20%286%20update%205-3%29.pdf https://www.appic.org/Portals/0/2018%20Conference/APPIC%2020.... You can find sources going all the way back to the 1970s talking about these terms and how they relate to racism. It's only a massive leap if you have not done the homework and if you have not talked to black colleagues in our industry about what they consider to be microagressions. > Not to mention the science of microaggressions is not even remotely settled. You are moving the goal posts. You said you don't care to "have newspeak forced on me without real evidence". Then when presented with scholarly studies and real evidence of psychological damage, you claim the evidence is not good enough.

cameronbrown 6y ago
> You are moving the goal posts. A reasonable statement, however I don't consider one paper to be enough evidence for restructuring the entire English language to avoid white/black, light/dark concepts. Not to mention academia is a massive political bubble which is clearly influencing the social sciences right now. We're clearly not going to see eye to eye here - but I wish you a good day.
- tchaffee 6y ago
  > restructuring the entire English language That's a strawman. No one is restructuring the entire English language. There is a small list of words used in technology that companies are changing to more accurate words. "denylist" and "allowlist" are clearer in purpose and intent than "blacklist".
  - cameronbrown 6y ago
    [deleted]
    - tchaffee 6y ago
      Why does replacing a handful of offensive terms with more accurate words require "restructuring the entire English language"? Unless you can make a case for that, the logical conclusion is that those handful of words will go out of favor and the impact to the "entire English language" will be negligible.
      - cameronbrown 6y ago
        [deleted]
        DanBC 6y ago
        > just because America has a racism problem. > I, and my country, do not share these problems. Your country definitely has a racism problem. Where do you live? We'll give you a fucking enormous list of both the historic racism and current day racism for that country.
        cameronbrown 6y ago
        Cops aren't gunning people down in my country, so no, I think things are fine here.
      - orthecreedence 6y ago
        > Why does replacing a handful of offensive terms You want to rewrite parts the language because a few people are offended? Do you realize how often people are offended at the most miniscule and obnoxious things? I think the slippery slope argument applies here. Secondly, from looking at the history of the term whitelist/blacklist, they are not rooted racially. Why does there need to be any more discussion here? This isn't PoC crying for change. This is a bunch of privileged white people sitting around wondering what words they should replace while PoC are getting gunned down by the powers that be.