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I am more familiar with the Buddhist literature on the self and the theory of mind which was developed in India alongside the Vedic approaches. There should be

I am more familiar with the Buddhist literature on the self and the theory of mind which was developed in India alongside the Vedic approaches. There should be something similar in the Vedic system. The article is guilty of the same fault it attributes to others - namely looking at Indian philosophy and its theory of self from a Western lens and missing the vast majority of literature. In the Buddhist system, they first start by dismantling the idea of a fixed unchanging self by various. This is accomplished in progressively sophisticated arguments - self is just an aggregation of parts, to self is just that which functions to self is a transient changing phenomenon we construct on a moment-by-moment basis. Then there are extremely sophisticated divisions of the function of the (so-called) mind. See Plato (https://stanford.io/2UFYPZW https://stanford.io/2UFYPZW) for a comphrensive overview and this one for good readable (https://evanthompsondotme.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/indian-theories-of-mind.pdf https://evanthompsondotme.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/indian...) intro. There are many schools of thought in ancient India like the Carvaka, who were rational/materialist, which no longer exist. Then there are traditions like Mahanyana and Theravada Buddhism that were destroyed after the Islamic conquest from 1100~1400 AD. No survey is complete without considering these traditions.

perfmode 6y ago
Books and scriptures serve to indicate the existence of the Higher Power or Self and to point the way to It. That is their essential purpose. Apart from that they are useless. However, they are voluminous, in order to be adapted to the level of development of every seeker. As a person rises in the scale he finds the stages already attained to be only stepping stones to higher stages, until finally the goal is reached. When that happens, the goal alone remains and everything else, including the scriptures, become useless. The intricate maze of philosophy of the various schools is said to clarify matters and to reveal the Truth, but in fact it creates confusion where none need exist. To understand anything there must be the Self. The Self is obvious, so why not remain as the Self? What need to explain the non-self?
- haltingproblem 6y ago
  I will try but any incoherence is just my lack of understanding ;) Why prove that the self is a delusion and it does not exist. First lets try a simple example of refutation of the self - I am putting a car together part by part, first the chassis, then the engine block, then the tires. At each point I turn to ask you "is it a car yet". You say no but at some point, you say "its a car now". The notion of "this is a car now" is created in your mind the moment the last part was added. The last part by itself does not contain "car" any more than other parts. Similarly, we can explain the notion of self. It is an illusion formed in the mind. Once we understand that it does not exist but is simply a collection of physical and mental phenomena - we have reached no-self. Why bother with this? The realization of no-self creates the space to understand that we can be anything because we lack a fixed nature (self). Of course, this leads to many apparent contradictions. Why should the present me bother to help the future me if the self is illusory and changing (i.e. not fixed) ;)
  - perfmode 6y ago
    "Present me and future me..." "why should..." all these... also thoughts... questions like these... undecidable... * thoughts are the words of your language in your mind. * The ego is thought. * The ego is the I-thought. * "I am happy", "I am sad", "I did this", "I did that". There are so many sentences that are thought of with the word I in them. That thought "I" in each of those sentences is the ego. * The root of thought is the I thought. * Disconnected the I-thought from the external sense objects to which it attaches, and all other thoughts will fall away. * Follow the I-thought to its source. * To turn the attention that normally goes out to the world around 180 degrees and to look inward, towards awareness watching awareness. * Disconnected from external sense objects, the I-thought becomes unstable and retreats to the source and disappears. * What remains is the Self!
    - haltingproblem 6y ago
      I wish removing the ego was as simple as pulling a linguistic trick of dropping the "I" in a sentence or saying just dont think of the I.

perfmode 6y ago

Books and scriptures serve to indicate the existence of the Higher Power or Self and to point the way to It. That is their essential purpose. Apart from that they are useless. However, they are voluminous, in order to be adapted to the level of development of every seeker. As a person rises in the scale he finds the stages already attained to be only stepping stones to higher stages, until finally the goal is reached. When that happens, the goal alone remains and everything else, including the scriptures, become useless. The intricate maze of philosophy of the various schools is said to clarify matters and to reveal the Truth, but in fact it creates confusion where none need exist. To understand anything there must be the Self. The Self is obvious, so why not remain as the Self? What need to explain the non-self?

haltingproblem 6y ago
I will try but any incoherence is just my lack of understanding ;) Why prove that the self is a delusion and it does not exist. First lets try a simple example of refutation of the self - I am putting a car together part by part, first the chassis, then the engine block, then the tires. At each point I turn to ask you "is it a car yet". You say no but at some point, you say "its a car now". The notion of "this is a car now" is created in your mind the moment the last part was added. The last part by itself does not contain "car" any more than other parts. Similarly, we can explain the notion of self. It is an illusion formed in the mind. Once we understand that it does not exist but is simply a collection of physical and mental phenomena - we have reached no-self. Why bother with this? The realization of no-self creates the space to understand that we can be anything because we lack a fixed nature (self). Of course, this leads to many apparent contradictions. Why should the present me bother to help the future me if the self is illusory and changing (i.e. not fixed) ;)
- perfmode 6y ago
  "Present me and future me..." "why should..." all these... also thoughts... questions like these... undecidable... * thoughts are the words of your language in your mind. * The ego is thought. * The ego is the I-thought. * "I am happy", "I am sad", "I did this", "I did that". There are so many sentences that are thought of with the word I in them. That thought "I" in each of those sentences is the ego. * The root of thought is the I thought. * Disconnected the I-thought from the external sense objects to which it attaches, and all other thoughts will fall away. * Follow the I-thought to its source. * To turn the attention that normally goes out to the world around 180 degrees and to look inward, towards awareness watching awareness. * Disconnected from external sense objects, the I-thought becomes unstable and retreats to the source and disappears. * What remains is the Self!
  - haltingproblem 6y ago
    I wish removing the ego was as simple as pulling a linguistic trick of dropping the "I" in a sentence or saying just dont think of the I.