5 ms·

Agree with you. I don't think the demise of rental companies is immediate or imminent, but I believe it is inevitable. The forces are indelible. BTW, your calc

Agree with you. I don't think the demise of rental companies is immediate or imminent, but I believe it is inevitable. The forces are indelible. BTW, your calculation agrees with my statement. $37 for car including fees, $30-$40 in gas, plus unknown parking. I was spitballing $60-$70 for day, and it seems those things do indeed add up to that amount. Higher gas prices, more expensive parking, and longer commutes make those figures even moreso. I agree with you that if the business foots the tab, the employee might not care and would just go for convenience. But the biggest factor impacting business travel is not the cost of rental cars, but the shift to virtual events and remote meetings. This is another indelible force for the rental industry. As mentioned, I think the demise is not in these next few years, but by 2030 I believe we'll be writing the post-mortem on rental cars and how the industry has transitioned to something else.

ghaff 6y ago
Uber's made some difference for me at the margins. I've never tended to get a rental car if I'm just going from the airport into a city and back. But I did tend to e.g. if I were going to some location around Silicon Valley even if the car were mostly just going to sit in a cheap/free hotel parking lot. It was generally easier and it meant I had a car if I wanted to run out to a store or whatever. Uber pricing and convenience make me think harder about the equation. If I'm really pretty much just going to a hotel for a few days, it's probably a wash so I may just take the Uber. I'll still rent if I'm going to also be visiting friends or going for a hike--or taking a longer drive to somewhere that I may not even have cell reception. But definitely less than I used to even pre-COVID. And I imagine that urbanites who default to not driving rent even less.
chucksmash 6y ago
Are you booking your cars at a rate negotiated by your employer? Aside from getting a free rental credit every X days, I don't see anything about discounts in the Emerald Club benefits section. Playing around with variations on a 7/13-7/17 M-F rental (also trying 7/11-7/18 Sat-Sat, checking in Manhattan, at LGA, and at DSM in Des Moine, IA for comparison) I'm seeing numbers 1.5-3x higher. I'm curious if the difference is entirely price discrimination or if there is something else like a negotiated bulk rate at play. Numbers are for lowest tier car, same pickup and drop off location. Manhattan M-F: $72/day base ($348 w/ taxes and fees) Manhattan Sat-Sat: $59/day base ($501 all in) LaGuardia Airport (luxury car, economy car is $22/day more) M-F: $94/day base ($512) LGA Sat-Sat: $73/day base ($693 total) Des Moines International Airport (standard car, economy car is $6/day more) M-F: $92/day base, $472 total Des Moines International Airport Sat-Sat: $49/day base ($463 all-in) ---- So... 1. Lowest I'm seeing is $49/day, which is why I ask in the first place. 2. Pricing shenanigans of a Saturday to Saturday rental coming out cheaper than a Monday to Friday rental in the case of a) 7 day Manhattan vs 5 day LGA and b) 7 day DSM vs 5 day DSM are so frustrating. Surely there's room in the economy for a competitor who offers transparent, predictable pricing? Dealing with industries where you know they are milking you based on reverse IP look up/browsing history/demographic profile is infuriating. How can someone be loyal to any company whose pricing model is "the absolute most we think we can get out of you, personally"?
- wenc 6y ago
  > Are you booking your cars at a rate negotiated by your employer? Yes. But I believe I get the same prices on my personal account. > I don't see anything about discounts in the Emerald Club benefits section. This may be why. I'm Emerald Executive -- my employer has negotiated Executive tier for every employee. I also have the same tier on my personal account through my credit card. I don't rent cars in NYC (that's one place where rentals are inadvisable -- NYC is hostile to driving). But just priced out DSM for you 7/11 - 7/17. For Economy and Compact = $152/week base, $219 total with fess included. Midsize = $157/week base, $226 total with fees included. (Someone else with Executive membership but without a company negotiated rate, please verify.) With Executive level membership, I can get a midsize and pick any vehicle from the Executive aisle. This can be anything from an SUV to a lower-end luxury car. This is why National is amazing. > How can someone be loyal to any company whose pricing model is "the absolute most we think we can get out of you, personally"? It's differential pricing as a result of yield management [1]. You can hate on it but it's part of the reason the economics even works for certain classes of goods and services. Without it, large swaths of services in the hospitality industry (hotels, airlines, etc.) would not be accessible to the masses or be profitable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_management
  - chucksmash 6y ago
    > For Economy and Compact = > $152/week base, $219 total with fess included. Midsize = $157/week base, $226 total with fees included. Thanks for taking the time to look this up. $226 vs $472 is wild. 2.1x the price for the same service. Playing around with other car companies at DSM for 7/11-7/18: - Budget: $347 all-in - Avis $410 all-in - Hertz $484 all-in - Enterprise $374 all-in I was expecting all of these prices to be pretty similar given "economy class rental car" feels like it would be fairly commoditized. > It's differential pricing as a result of yield management [1]. You can hate on it but it's part of the reason the economics even works for certain classes of goods and services. Being familiar with the concept doesn't make it more enjoyable to be the one being fleeced!

ghaff 6y ago

Uber's made some difference for me at the margins. I've never tended to get a rental car if I'm just going from the airport into a city and back. But I did tend to e.g. if I were going to some location around Silicon Valley even if the car were mostly just going to sit in a cheap/free hotel parking lot. It was generally easier and it meant I had a car if I wanted to run out to a store or whatever. Uber pricing and convenience make me think harder about the equation. If I'm really pretty much just going to a hotel for a few days, it's probably a wash so I may just take the Uber. I'll still rent if I'm going to also be visiting friends or going for a hike--or taking a longer drive to somewhere that I may not even have cell reception. But definitely less than I used to even pre-COVID. And I imagine that urbanites who default to not driving rent even less.

chucksmash 6y ago

Are you booking your cars at a rate negotiated by your employer? Aside from getting a free rental credit every X days, I don't see anything about discounts in the Emerald Club benefits section. Playing around with variations on a 7/13-7/17 M-F rental (also trying 7/11-7/18 Sat-Sat, checking in Manhattan, at LGA, and at DSM in Des Moine, IA for comparison) I'm seeing numbers 1.5-3x higher. I'm curious if the difference is entirely price discrimination or if there is something else like a negotiated bulk rate at play. Numbers are for lowest tier car, same pickup and drop off location. Manhattan M-F: $72/day base ($348 w/ taxes and fees) Manhattan Sat-Sat: $59/day base ($501 all in) LaGuardia Airport (luxury car, economy car is $22/day more) M-F: $94/day base ($512) LGA Sat-Sat: $73/day base ($693 total) Des Moines International Airport (standard car, economy car is $6/day more) M-F: $92/day base, $472 total Des Moines International Airport Sat-Sat: $49/day base ($463 all-in) ---- So... 1. Lowest I'm seeing is $49/day, which is why I ask in the first place. 2. Pricing shenanigans of a Saturday to Saturday rental coming out cheaper than a Monday to Friday rental in the case of a) 7 day Manhattan vs 5 day LGA and b) 7 day DSM vs 5 day DSM are so frustrating. Surely there's room in the economy for a competitor who offers transparent, predictable pricing? Dealing with industries where you know they are milking you based on reverse IP look up/browsing history/demographic profile is infuriating. How can someone be loyal to any company whose pricing model is "the absolute most we think we can get out of you, personally"?

wenc 6y ago
> Are you booking your cars at a rate negotiated by your employer? Yes. But I believe I get the same prices on my personal account. > I don't see anything about discounts in the Emerald Club benefits section. This may be why. I'm Emerald Executive -- my employer has negotiated Executive tier for every employee. I also have the same tier on my personal account through my credit card. I don't rent cars in NYC (that's one place where rentals are inadvisable -- NYC is hostile to driving). But just priced out DSM for you 7/11 - 7/17. For Economy and Compact = $152/week base, $219 total with fess included. Midsize = $157/week base, $226 total with fees included. (Someone else with Executive membership but without a company negotiated rate, please verify.) With Executive level membership, I can get a midsize and pick any vehicle from the Executive aisle. This can be anything from an SUV to a lower-end luxury car. This is why National is amazing. > How can someone be loyal to any company whose pricing model is "the absolute most we think we can get out of you, personally"? It's differential pricing as a result of yield management [1]. You can hate on it but it's part of the reason the economics even works for certain classes of goods and services. Without it, large swaths of services in the hospitality industry (hotels, airlines, etc.) would not be accessible to the masses or be profitable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_management
- chucksmash 6y ago
  > For Economy and Compact = > $152/week base, $219 total with fess included. Midsize = $157/week base, $226 total with fees included. Thanks for taking the time to look this up. $226 vs $472 is wild. 2.1x the price for the same service. Playing around with other car companies at DSM for 7/11-7/18: - Budget: $347 all-in - Avis $410 all-in - Hertz $484 all-in - Enterprise $374 all-in I was expecting all of these prices to be pretty similar given "economy class rental car" feels like it would be fairly commoditized. > It's differential pricing as a result of yield management [1]. You can hate on it but it's part of the reason the economics even works for certain classes of goods and services. Being familiar with the concept doesn't make it more enjoyable to be the one being fleeced!