3 ms·

The word black and its etymology has nothing to do with race?

drdeca 6y ago
Well, the etymology of the word “black” is traced back to reconstruction in Proto-Germanic “ blakaz” (“burned”), and proto-indo-European “, thought to mean "to burn, gleam, shine, flash". And these of course are not based on the idea of “race” (which I think is a more recent idea). But I was talking about the use of the word “black” as a negative thing, such as in “blacklist”. Etymologyonline.com says “Meaning "fierce, terrible, wicked" is from late 14c. Figurative senses often come from the notion of "without light," moral or spiritual.” I think this refutes the idea that the metaphorical associations of the word “black” come from associations with race. You say “nothing to do with”. This phrasing seems open to interpretation. Some might say that everything has “something to do with” everything else. Supposing that you agree that the etymology of the word “black” “has nothing to do with” the idea of being a bad cook, then sure.
- tchaffee 6y ago
  > I think this refutes the idea that the metaphorical associations of the word “black” come from associations with race It would be far more accurate to say this refutes the idea that the original metaphorical associations of the word “black” come from associations with race. US history is full of stories where that original meaning was extended to black people themselves. The metaphorical associations have been useful for over 200 years to a society that maintains systemic racism against black people.
  - drdeca 6y ago
    I don't mean to suggest that the ideas did not interact at any point. But I think it would be incorrect to say that the metaphorical associations of "black" which are present in things like "blacklist" and such, "come from" things based on the idea of "race". To talk about what something "comes from" is to talk about its origins, what it originated from.
    - tchaffee 6y ago
      That's fair to consider. However, we should also consider usage over time and popularity and the origins of what made the usage so much more popular at specific points in history. The origins of a rarely used word are far less interesting than when that word all of a sudden became very popular a hundred years later. Or perhaps ten years from now, why the word so quickly faded from usage.

Well, the etymology of the word “black” is traced back to reconstruction in Proto-Germanic “ blakaz” (“burned”), and proto-indo-European “, thought to mean "to burn, gleam, shine, flash". And these of course are not based on the idea of “race” (which I think is a more recent idea). But I was talking about the use of the word “black” as a negative thing, such as in “blacklist”. Etymologyonline.com says “Meaning "fierce, terrible, wicked" is from late 14c. Figurative senses often come from the notion of "without light," moral or spiritual.” I think this refutes the idea that the metaphorical associations of the word “black” come from associations with race. You say “nothing to do with”. This phrasing seems open to interpretation. Some might say that everything has “something to do with” everything else. Supposing that you agree that the etymology of the word “black” “has nothing to do with” the idea of being a bad cook, then sure.

tchaffee 6y ago
> I think this refutes the idea that the metaphorical associations of the word “black” come from associations with race It would be far more accurate to say this refutes the idea that the original metaphorical associations of the word “black” come from associations with race. US history is full of stories where that original meaning was extended to black people themselves. The metaphorical associations have been useful for over 200 years to a society that maintains systemic racism against black people.
- drdeca 6y ago
  I don't mean to suggest that the ideas did not interact at any point. But I think it would be incorrect to say that the metaphorical associations of "black" which are present in things like "blacklist" and such, "come from" things based on the idea of "race". To talk about what something "comes from" is to talk about its origins, what it originated from.
  - tchaffee 6y ago
    That's fair to consider. However, we should also consider usage over time and popularity and the origins of what made the usage so much more popular at specific points in history. The origins of a rarely used word are far less interesting than when that word all of a sudden became very popular a hundred years later. Or perhaps ten years from now, why the word so quickly faded from usage.