3 ms·

This seems to be happening over and over again. Two years ago, everyone wanted to be a platform, now all that embracing open API stuff has turned to shit. Bas

by aditya 16y ago

This seems to be happening over and over again. Two years ago, everyone wanted to be a platform, now all that embracing open API stuff has turned to shit. Basically, the idea seems to be that once you've used your API ecosystem to grow to a certain size, you can fuck over the developers that allowed you to get to that point by building on top of your platform and by attracting users to it or keeping them engaged. The only way to get around this is to become so big that the platform can't shut you down (Zynga, Twitpic). Twitter says, stop building clients, build in these verticals. Who is going to stop them from going after the most profitable verticals tomorrow once developers have proved that there's money to be made there? As a developer, why the hell would I want to deal with this? Open API's seem to be the antithesis of the profit motive, or atleast, that's how it seems to be. Sad.

DanielBMarkham 16y ago
You're generalizing a little too much for me, but I think you are spot on where it counts. Developing for a walled garden is a fool's game. It might make you a lot of money short-term, but long term you're always going to be sucking up to somebody who can cut off your lights just because they had a bad morning. What's interesting to me is how much these small apps are functioning like slot machines at Las Vegas. 100 slot machines just eat money, and nobody notices. Then one kicks off and makes a big winner and everybody cheers -- thereby drawing more people over to play the slots. The only thing a situation like that is good for is the house.
apievangelist 16y ago
API ecosystem poaching is definitely uncool. Twitters recent moves are disturbing and definitely will have a negative impact on how people view APIs. The bad decisions by Twitter doesn't mean everything is going to shit. Amazon is building their ecosystem with consideration of their ecosystem players - http://www.cloudave.com/10992/aws-vpc-and-impact-on-ecosystem/ http://www.cloudave.com/10992/aws-vpc-and-impact-on-ecosyste... NPR is retooling their APIs to support partner efforts, licensing, digital rights, etc. - http://www.npr.org/blogs/inside/2011/03/17/134259537/the-npr-api-an-engine-rebuild http://www.npr.org/blogs/inside/2011/03/17/134259537/the-npr... This is some tough shit. No quick answers. Its different for different industries, mediums, etc. Some API owners are making poor decisions, but there are plenty others like NPR, Amazon, and Netflix that are innovating and sharing their stories on problems they face and what went into their decisions. The key in any of this is don't get swept up in the short term undercurrents. Step back and look at bigger pictures. I've been using APIs for 10 years. Cloud computing for 5. I feel like we are just getting going. Lots to figure out.
- chc 16y ago
  If you read the headline, you will notice that this comment thread is about Amazon screwing over their API users. Twitter was just brought up for context. So bringing up Amazon as somebody "innovating and sharing their stories" without addressing how they treated Lendle users is more than a little bit silly.
  - apievangelist 16y ago
    Actually...follow the tweet I used to get to this conversation. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2351900 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2351900 No reference of master conversation with Title you mention. Silly? I still would have posted Amazon link as reference to areas they do confer with partners. But you are correct I would have provided more discussion about Lendle users.
frouaix 16y ago
Let's not rewrite history here. The API that was used must have been PAAPI since it's the only Amazon API that allows access to their catalog. That API has very clear terms of use, and the terms haven't changed that much in the recent past. If a company decides to build a product or business using an API knowing that it goes against the terms of use, it is a huge risk that they have to assume.
Dylanlacey 16y ago
I don't think it's deliberate evil, rather it's the old "Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely" mixed with arrogance and less-then-steller thinking through of the effects. You open your platform, and people use it. Then LOTS of people use it. And suddenly you're more powerful because of it. And then something threatens your business. And the executive team go "What? They're using OUR OWN TOOLS to weaken our business? That can't be allowed to happen, cut them off!" The idea that someone could abuse their business through their API originally didn't occur. Then, once it did, there's a backlash because "They" are supposed to be building "Our" business, not their own at our expense.
chadaustin 16y ago
Danc, at GDC, gave a great presentation on this topic: http://www.lostgarden.com/2011/03/gdc-2011-game-of-platform-power.html http://www.lostgarden.com/2011/03/gdc-2011-game-of-platform-...

by aditya 16y ago

DanielBMarkham 16y ago

You're generalizing a little too much for me, but I think you are spot on where it counts. Developing for a walled garden is a fool's game. It might make you a lot of money short-term, but long term you're always going to be sucking up to somebody who can cut off your lights just because they had a bad morning. What's interesting to me is how much these small apps are functioning like slot machines at Las Vegas. 100 slot machines just eat money, and nobody notices. Then one kicks off and makes a big winner and everybody cheers -- thereby drawing more people over to play the slots. The only thing a situation like that is good for is the house.

apievangelist 16y ago

API ecosystem poaching is definitely uncool. Twitters recent moves are disturbing and definitely will have a negative impact on how people view APIs. The bad decisions by Twitter doesn't mean everything is going to shit. Amazon is building their ecosystem with consideration of their ecosystem players - http://www.cloudave.com/10992/aws-vpc-and-impact-on-ecosystem/ http://www.cloudave.com/10992/aws-vpc-and-impact-on-ecosyste... NPR is retooling their APIs to support partner efforts, licensing, digital rights, etc. - http://www.npr.org/blogs/inside/2011/03/17/134259537/the-npr-api-an-engine-rebuild http://www.npr.org/blogs/inside/2011/03/17/134259537/the-npr... This is some tough shit. No quick answers. Its different for different industries, mediums, etc. Some API owners are making poor decisions, but there are plenty others like NPR, Amazon, and Netflix that are innovating and sharing their stories on problems they face and what went into their decisions. The key in any of this is don't get swept up in the short term undercurrents. Step back and look at bigger pictures. I've been using APIs for 10 years. Cloud computing for 5. I feel like we are just getting going. Lots to figure out.

chc 16y ago
If you read the headline, you will notice that this comment thread is about Amazon screwing over their API users. Twitter was just brought up for context. So bringing up Amazon as somebody "innovating and sharing their stories" without addressing how they treated Lendle users is more than a little bit silly.
- apievangelist 16y ago
  Actually...follow the tweet I used to get to this conversation. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2351900 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2351900 No reference of master conversation with Title you mention. Silly? I still would have posted Amazon link as reference to areas they do confer with partners. But you are correct I would have provided more discussion about Lendle users.

frouaix 16y ago

Let's not rewrite history here. The API that was used must have been PAAPI since it's the only Amazon API that allows access to their catalog. That API has very clear terms of use, and the terms haven't changed that much in the recent past. If a company decides to build a product or business using an API knowing that it goes against the terms of use, it is a huge risk that they have to assume.

Dylanlacey 16y ago

I don't think it's deliberate evil, rather it's the old "Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely" mixed with arrogance and less-then-steller thinking through of the effects. You open your platform, and people use it. Then LOTS of people use it. And suddenly you're more powerful because of it. And then something threatens your business. And the executive team go "What? They're using OUR OWN TOOLS to weaken our business? That can't be allowed to happen, cut them off!" The idea that someone could abuse their business through their API originally didn't occur. Then, once it did, there's a backlash because "They" are supposed to be building "Our" business, not their own at our expense.

chadaustin 16y ago

Danc, at GDC, gave a great presentation on this topic: http://www.lostgarden.com/2011/03/gdc-2011-game-of-platform-power.html http://www.lostgarden.com/2011/03/gdc-2011-game-of-platform-...