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> Ramana Maharshi taught the simple, direct method of enlightenment. Can someone explain why I should want "enlightenment"?

seesawtron 6y ago
What do you think "enlightenment" means to you? Then it will be easier to understand whether you want it or not.
- laichzeit0 6y ago
  I have no idea to be honest. But when ever I read about these sort of things it seems like people are seeking after some insight that requires meditation or introspection of some sort and I have absolutely no idea why people are seeking it or find it in any way necessary? Am I missing out on something? I am perfectly content with existence and whatever idea I have of "I" or "self" seems sufficient. But I still find it curious that other people don't? For example, I'd rather study mathematics than meditate or seek enlightenment. I'm not sure why I should spend time pursing that over other things I enjoy.
  - seesawtron 6y ago
    If you are perfectly content with your existence and your understanding of the "self", you do not need to pursue paths of meditation or enlightenment. One might think that you are being stubborn and egotistical by implying that you have everything figured out but those opinions don't matter. It is easier to live your life the way you want it individually but when you are part of a society, others expect you to behave in ways that might contradict your actions but that's just how the societal system works. As to why others choose to seek the said "enlightenment" varies from person to person. Sometimes its hard to find meaning in your everyday life and you get stuck in existential angst and it is not easy to go on. There one find comfort in seeking the answers and meaning through western or eastern philosophies , through meditation, through religion, through community or whatever fits well to their sense of the world. As the Easter Indic philosophy points out that the optimal and yet hardest path to "enlightenment" is not in abandonment of your responsibilites and an ascetic way of life but in the "middle" i.e. where you do your duty towards others in your everyday life while being aware of the the highest moral standards and doing your best to adhere to them (reflection of Stoicism here). I would assume this is something you believe you are already doing so cheers to that!
  - seesawtron 6y ago
    On a side note, the ancient Greek philosophers believed Mathematics was the language of the Gods. There were a bunch of mathematicians who formed the Pythagorean sect which was similar to a religion. They even punished those who preached the irrational numbers becuase irrational numbers were seen as "evil" because they defied the geometrical properties of triangles [0]. So in a way mathematics and science in general is the path to enlightement, to undestanding of the natural world. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippasus#Irrational_numbers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippasus#Irrational_numbers
- dr_dshiv 6y ago
  Here is a brand new article reviewing conceptions of enlightenment. Very good: Jacobs, B. J. (2020). Getting off the Wheel: A Conceptual History of the New Age Concept of Enlightenment. Numen, 67(4), 373-401.
- naruvimama 6y ago
  A frog in a pond is content catching flies and avoiding being eaten, perhaps laying eggs and procreating. Similarly among humans, some live lives not that different from a frog, when they reach the limit they may pursue progress - wealth, education or fame. Some like yourself who value knowledge for the sake of it like mathematics or physics pursue that. However, there are people who either reach the limitation of knowledge and logic. For some this longing comes naturally at a young age, and for others when they have lived through much of their lives and others when they meet extraordinary people or experiences. You do not need it, it is not a race. The self or aathman takes a new identity/body in the next cycle of life.
forgotmypw17 6y ago
For me, having been a path I could call on the way to enlightenment, I feel more confident in my daily choices, and I also feel like I am making many more conscious choices every day than I used to. In programming terms, I feel like I am working towards running my mind in "debug mode" as frequently as possible, and the periods in which I am able to attain this mode of functioning are becoming more frequent and prolonged. Then, I can exist more consciously, making choices towards a better existence every minute, in every moment, and this is an amazing feeling indeed. Our ability to choose, to act within our environment consciously, is a great power, one which I did not appreciate, took for granted, very frequently when I was younger. I still do often, but I also appreciate it often. And this amazing feeling of everyday appreciation and gratitude is one of the greatest gifts I've received thanks to meditation and seeking.
empath75 6y ago
In general ‘enlightenment’ is an understanding that the physical world is illusory, as is your sense of self as something distinct from the universe as a whole, which is said to relieve suffering because people no longer seek after material desires that are meaningless.
perfmode 6y ago
As others have offered, there is no "need" for anything in particular. It's a-okay if you do not care for it. Plenty of people live rewarding lives without any explicit quest. Plenty of people accidentally live in alignment with what is often understood to be the ground of Being, and in this alignment, avoid causing unnecessary suffering. I'm just going to spitball, as this exercise feels useful for me to clarify my own thoughts: One beautiful thing is that the truths pointed to by what is called enlightenment provide clues as to why the work of Godel, Turing, and Wittgenstein all seem to point to inherent limitations in conceptual frameworks. One "benefit" is that it dissolves intractable epistemic problems. It dissolves the problem of morality and ethics, without devolving to nihilism or depending on some particular ideological framework. It provides a basis for Being which goes beyond ideology. Actions to take around questions of justice and equality become much more obvious (from a personal POV) I offer this lightly: the questions raised by the possibility of enlightenment are at the foundation of all existence, and in a sense of sub-specie aeternitatis, it is of little use to understand facts about the World without a sound metaphysical basis. Enlightenment reveals the ways in which one's beliefs are limiting. Through particular conceptual lenses, many things seem like unqualified goods. Yet, wisdom reveals that any such position is inherently limited. The concepts of good and evil dissolve. Compassion is awakened. The enlightened one brings an end to the cycles of unconscious suffering in the world that they inadvertently cause through their mistaken beliefs.

seesawtron 6y ago

What do you think "enlightenment" means to you? Then it will be easier to understand whether you want it or not.

laichzeit0 6y ago
I have no idea to be honest. But when ever I read about these sort of things it seems like people are seeking after some insight that requires meditation or introspection of some sort and I have absolutely no idea why people are seeking it or find it in any way necessary? Am I missing out on something? I am perfectly content with existence and whatever idea I have of "I" or "self" seems sufficient. But I still find it curious that other people don't? For example, I'd rather study mathematics than meditate or seek enlightenment. I'm not sure why I should spend time pursing that over other things I enjoy.
- seesawtron 6y ago
  If you are perfectly content with your existence and your understanding of the "self", you do not need to pursue paths of meditation or enlightenment. One might think that you are being stubborn and egotistical by implying that you have everything figured out but those opinions don't matter. It is easier to live your life the way you want it individually but when you are part of a society, others expect you to behave in ways that might contradict your actions but that's just how the societal system works. As to why others choose to seek the said "enlightenment" varies from person to person. Sometimes its hard to find meaning in your everyday life and you get stuck in existential angst and it is not easy to go on. There one find comfort in seeking the answers and meaning through western or eastern philosophies , through meditation, through religion, through community or whatever fits well to their sense of the world. As the Easter Indic philosophy points out that the optimal and yet hardest path to "enlightenment" is not in abandonment of your responsibilites and an ascetic way of life but in the "middle" i.e. where you do your duty towards others in your everyday life while being aware of the the highest moral standards and doing your best to adhere to them (reflection of Stoicism here). I would assume this is something you believe you are already doing so cheers to that!
- seesawtron 6y ago
  On a side note, the ancient Greek philosophers believed Mathematics was the language of the Gods. There were a bunch of mathematicians who formed the Pythagorean sect which was similar to a religion. They even punished those who preached the irrational numbers becuase irrational numbers were seen as "evil" because they defied the geometrical properties of triangles [0]. So in a way mathematics and science in general is the path to enlightement, to undestanding of the natural world. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippasus#Irrational_numbers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippasus#Irrational_numbers
dr_dshiv 6y ago
Here is a brand new article reviewing conceptions of enlightenment. Very good: Jacobs, B. J. (2020). Getting off the Wheel: A Conceptual History of the New Age Concept of Enlightenment. Numen, 67(4), 373-401.
naruvimama 6y ago
A frog in a pond is content catching flies and avoiding being eaten, perhaps laying eggs and procreating. Similarly among humans, some live lives not that different from a frog, when they reach the limit they may pursue progress - wealth, education or fame. Some like yourself who value knowledge for the sake of it like mathematics or physics pursue that. However, there are people who either reach the limitation of knowledge and logic. For some this longing comes naturally at a young age, and for others when they have lived through much of their lives and others when they meet extraordinary people or experiences. You do not need it, it is not a race. The self or aathman takes a new identity/body in the next cycle of life.

forgotmypw17 6y ago

For me, having been a path I could call on the way to enlightenment, I feel more confident in my daily choices, and I also feel like I am making many more conscious choices every day than I used to. In programming terms, I feel like I am working towards running my mind in "debug mode" as frequently as possible, and the periods in which I am able to attain this mode of functioning are becoming more frequent and prolonged. Then, I can exist more consciously, making choices towards a better existence every minute, in every moment, and this is an amazing feeling indeed. Our ability to choose, to act within our environment consciously, is a great power, one which I did not appreciate, took for granted, very frequently when I was younger. I still do often, but I also appreciate it often. And this amazing feeling of everyday appreciation and gratitude is one of the greatest gifts I've received thanks to meditation and seeking.

empath75 6y ago

In general ‘enlightenment’ is an understanding that the physical world is illusory, as is your sense of self as something distinct from the universe as a whole, which is said to relieve suffering because people no longer seek after material desires that are meaningless.

perfmode 6y ago

As others have offered, there is no "need" for anything in particular. It's a-okay if you do not care for it. Plenty of people live rewarding lives without any explicit quest. Plenty of people accidentally live in alignment with what is often understood to be the ground of Being, and in this alignment, avoid causing unnecessary suffering. I'm just going to spitball, as this exercise feels useful for me to clarify my own thoughts: One beautiful thing is that the truths pointed to by what is called enlightenment provide clues as to why the work of Godel, Turing, and Wittgenstein all seem to point to inherent limitations in conceptual frameworks. One "benefit" is that it dissolves intractable epistemic problems. It dissolves the problem of morality and ethics, without devolving to nihilism or depending on some particular ideological framework. It provides a basis for Being which goes beyond ideology. Actions to take around questions of justice and equality become much more obvious (from a personal POV) I offer this lightly: the questions raised by the possibility of enlightenment are at the foundation of all existence, and in a sense of sub-specie aeternitatis, it is of little use to understand facts about the World without a sound metaphysical basis. Enlightenment reveals the ways in which one's beliefs are limiting. Through particular conceptual lenses, many things seem like unqualified goods. Yet, wisdom reveals that any such position is inherently limited. The concepts of good and evil dissolve. Compassion is awakened. The enlightened one brings an end to the cycles of unconscious suffering in the world that they inadvertently cause through their mistaken beliefs.