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I’m currently an Amazon engineer - it was my first job out of college. I worked really damn hard to get this job, and now everyone (including you, a Facebook/Go

I’m currently an Amazon engineer - it was my first job out of college. I worked really damn hard to get this job, and now everyone (including you, a Facebook/Google employee) seem to think I’m stupid and inferior because I didn’t pass my Google/Facebook onsites. I’ve studied for hundreds of hours but the best company I’ve cracked is a hedge fund. It’s comments like these that make me wonder if I should just end it all.

cletus 6y ago
So i said: > If you're capable of getting a software engineering job at Amazon, you're capable of getting much, much better benefits elsewhere. which I think says the opposite of what you're implying. I'm saying you're capable of getting a much better benefit package as evidenced by the fact that you got a job at Amazon. Amazon is (IMHO) short-changing you. Don't sell yourself short. If that was the best offer you had out of college, believe me I get it. And if you're happy there now then I'm happy for you. But pointing out how Amazon falls short of competitors with a roughly equivalent hiring bar is not intended an attack on you or your choices.
- lowiqengineer 6y ago
  I get what you're saying, but the evidence in my experience seems to prove otherwise if I can't get into Google or Facebook after trying nearly a dozen times between them. I make around ~$150k a year right now. If I get promoted this year, I'll make $180k. Google engineers start at around $200k. By nature of the free market of labor it seems like I'm only worth about 75% of a Google engineer at maximum to work on identical things. Folks have told me to "just go to Google" don't understand the anguish of being worth 75% of a human at best, and not having the intelligence to pass an interview loop anywhere consistently.
  - iaw 6y ago
    Your username and the tone of your message feel a lot like imposter syndrome to me. You passed the interview, you kept the job, and are doing the exact same work. You are not "worth less" than anyone else based on Amazon's miserly compensation, it's that other FAANG weren't smart enough to grab you when they had the chance. I believe both FB and Google are actively hiring experienced engineers right now, apply every time you can until you get the job. I know getting rejected sucks and it feels like a statement about personal value but in the end it's a screening process that tries to guesstimate your potential for success, it's not an indictment of your abilities.
  - BeetleB 6y ago
    > Folks have told me to "just go to Google" don't understand the anguish of being worth 75% of a human at best, and not having the intelligence to pass an interview loop anywhere consistently. The majority of SW developers in the US make less than $100K right out of college. Are you suggesting they are less than 50% of a human? And most Google employees make less than what the top earners in hedge funds make. Does that make Google employees less human? I'm not a counselor, and I suggest you seek one. However, the warning signal in your comment is "Folks have told me..." Why are you letting other people tell you what constitutes value? Sorry that I keep riddling my comments with anecdotes and stories, but here's another one: A friend of mine spent over a decade trying to get a PhD. He's smart, but there's a lot more to smartness that is needed to get one. He kept having problems (some from his side, some external). I told him for years to quit - the PhD isn't all that great a goal. But he insisted on sticking to it so as not to be a failure. Last year I had to tell him "Be prepared for the inevitable depression after you get the PhD and then realize all that effort wasn't worth it." He graduated recently. Let's see how he holds up. If Google is good for you, I hope you get in. But be prepared to discover the opposite if you do get in.
guitarsteve 6y ago
Amazon has its shortcomings but it still has a lot of smart and qualified people (like you, I assume!) Do you best, be aware of your worth, and if/when you find a better opportunity, grab it! It’s not good to beat yourself up for “failing” to get into Google or some more desirable company. Anyone who is familiar with the process knows that these companies (including Amazon!) frequently reject qualified candidates. They’re tuned to avoid bad hires at all costs. Basically if any interviewer has a bad feeling about a candidate, they’ll get rejected.
- lowiqengineer 6y ago
  I mean these sorts of things would imply that Amazon doesn't though, right? Why would anybody accept the "worst" for no benefit unless that was the best they got? In a free labor market that just means my inherent value is lower. Its indeed true that Google rejects qualified candidates. But if I miss a question during an onsite, that just means I'm unqualified.
BeetleB 6y ago
Sorry if what I say sounds harsh, but you remind me of a former colleague who really beat himself up for not getting admission into the top 2 ranked schools, and having to settle for the one ranked 3rd in the country. He thought he was worthless. The problems with your thought process: 1. Believing Google/Facebook/Amazon/any company's hiring process to be a representative of your ability. It is well known that companies like Google have set up their process to minimize bad hires, and that rejecting qualified applicants is the side effect of this. If you got rejected, it means nothing. Look up Type I vs Type II errors in statistics (or Alpha vs Beta testing). 2. Since when is getting hired into any company a badge of honor? It's not an accomplishment. Doing/building something that has impact is an accomplishment. And if you look around, you'll find most SW folks who had an impact are not in these companies. You'll also find that the average Google/Facebook employee has not, and never will, achieved much (which, BTW is totally OK!) 3. Similar to 2 above, you'll always be miserable if you allow others to set standards for you. Set your own standards! 4. In my opinion, if you're using your career as a major factor in self worth, you are setting yourself up for all kinds of psychological problems. The purpose of your job is to get paid. The purpose of acquiring money is to help you achieve your goals - it's not a goal in itself. If you happen to find a job that gives you meaning beyond just the paycheck, that's great. But it's not the norm, and even when you do find one, in most cases it doesn't stay that way. Things change at work, and that meaningful job could easily become a meaningless one overnight due to senior management. Find purpose in life that is not tied to your job.
- lowiqengineer 6y ago
  Even if they aren't representative of ability it's a strong signal if I keep getting rejected from Facebook (3 times for internship with final interviews, 2 times for onsite) and Google (2 times for internship, 1 time for full time onsite). You yourself say in a different comment that Amazon is easier to get into - that just means I'm less intelligent right? I did get into Citadel, but that was via their JavaScript domain specific interview process that had (as my friend described it) "mind-numbingly easy questions". It's easy to say that I shouldn't make getting hired into a company as a badge of honor...but I truly have no other accomplishments to speak of, even within Amazon. All of my friends seem to think I'm some sort of disappointment, or at least not successful. I wish I could avoid using my career as a factor for my self worth, but I don't make enough money to achieve my goals and won't for 2 promotions from now. It really feels like i'm both stuck and limited by my inherited intelligence.
sgwizdak 6y ago
The first thing to ask yourself -- are you happy? Are you working on problems that you think are interesting? Use that as a guide to determine if you need to change positions or companies. Benefits and comp are always great, but at a certain point you also start to examine your role in the world and the impact that you can have. Never sell yourself short, always look forward, and try to use the resources you have available to develop your skills. I've been with Amazon for about 15 years. There are a lot of employees who choose to be at Amazon and not Google/FB. There are pros/cons with each of the FAANGs and really any job. I find the problem space of Amazon's physical business to be fascinating to work on whereas I couldn't give a hoot about online advertising. With regards to benefits -- I've made enough in RSU appreciation for those differences to not matter. But I encourage people to carefully consider their own circumstances and look closely at long-term growth potential of whatever companies they're considering.

cletus 6y ago

So i said: > If you're capable of getting a software engineering job at Amazon, you're capable of getting much, much better benefits elsewhere. which I think says the opposite of what you're implying. I'm saying you're capable of getting a much better benefit package as evidenced by the fact that you got a job at Amazon. Amazon is (IMHO) short-changing you. Don't sell yourself short. If that was the best offer you had out of college, believe me I get it. And if you're happy there now then I'm happy for you. But pointing out how Amazon falls short of competitors with a roughly equivalent hiring bar is not intended an attack on you or your choices.

lowiqengineer 6y ago
I get what you're saying, but the evidence in my experience seems to prove otherwise if I can't get into Google or Facebook after trying nearly a dozen times between them. I make around ~$150k a year right now. If I get promoted this year, I'll make $180k. Google engineers start at around $200k. By nature of the free market of labor it seems like I'm only worth about 75% of a Google engineer at maximum to work on identical things. Folks have told me to "just go to Google" don't understand the anguish of being worth 75% of a human at best, and not having the intelligence to pass an interview loop anywhere consistently.
- iaw 6y ago
  Your username and the tone of your message feel a lot like imposter syndrome to me. You passed the interview, you kept the job, and are doing the exact same work. You are not "worth less" than anyone else based on Amazon's miserly compensation, it's that other FAANG weren't smart enough to grab you when they had the chance. I believe both FB and Google are actively hiring experienced engineers right now, apply every time you can until you get the job. I know getting rejected sucks and it feels like a statement about personal value but in the end it's a screening process that tries to guesstimate your potential for success, it's not an indictment of your abilities.
- BeetleB 6y ago
  > Folks have told me to "just go to Google" don't understand the anguish of being worth 75% of a human at best, and not having the intelligence to pass an interview loop anywhere consistently. The majority of SW developers in the US make less than $100K right out of college. Are you suggesting they are less than 50% of a human? And most Google employees make less than what the top earners in hedge funds make. Does that make Google employees less human? I'm not a counselor, and I suggest you seek one. However, the warning signal in your comment is "Folks have told me..." Why are you letting other people tell you what constitutes value? Sorry that I keep riddling my comments with anecdotes and stories, but here's another one: A friend of mine spent over a decade trying to get a PhD. He's smart, but there's a lot more to smartness that is needed to get one. He kept having problems (some from his side, some external). I told him for years to quit - the PhD isn't all that great a goal. But he insisted on sticking to it so as not to be a failure. Last year I had to tell him "Be prepared for the inevitable depression after you get the PhD and then realize all that effort wasn't worth it." He graduated recently. Let's see how he holds up. If Google is good for you, I hope you get in. But be prepared to discover the opposite if you do get in.

guitarsteve 6y ago

Amazon has its shortcomings but it still has a lot of smart and qualified people (like you, I assume!) Do you best, be aware of your worth, and if/when you find a better opportunity, grab it! It’s not good to beat yourself up for “failing” to get into Google or some more desirable company. Anyone who is familiar with the process knows that these companies (including Amazon!) frequently reject qualified candidates. They’re tuned to avoid bad hires at all costs. Basically if any interviewer has a bad feeling about a candidate, they’ll get rejected.

lowiqengineer 6y ago
I mean these sorts of things would imply that Amazon doesn't though, right? Why would anybody accept the "worst" for no benefit unless that was the best they got? In a free labor market that just means my inherent value is lower. Its indeed true that Google rejects qualified candidates. But if I miss a question during an onsite, that just means I'm unqualified.

BeetleB 6y ago

Sorry if what I say sounds harsh, but you remind me of a former colleague who really beat himself up for not getting admission into the top 2 ranked schools, and having to settle for the one ranked 3rd in the country. He thought he was worthless. The problems with your thought process: 1. Believing Google/Facebook/Amazon/any company's hiring process to be a representative of your ability. It is well known that companies like Google have set up their process to minimize bad hires, and that rejecting qualified applicants is the side effect of this. If you got rejected, it means nothing. Look up Type I vs Type II errors in statistics (or Alpha vs Beta testing). 2. Since when is getting hired into any company a badge of honor? It's not an accomplishment. Doing/building something that has impact is an accomplishment. And if you look around, you'll find most SW folks who had an impact are not in these companies. You'll also find that the average Google/Facebook employee has not, and never will, achieved much (which, BTW is totally OK!) 3. Similar to 2 above, you'll always be miserable if you allow others to set standards for you. Set your own standards! 4. In my opinion, if you're using your career as a major factor in self worth, you are setting yourself up for all kinds of psychological problems. The purpose of your job is to get paid. The purpose of acquiring money is to help you achieve your goals - it's not a goal in itself. If you happen to find a job that gives you meaning beyond just the paycheck, that's great. But it's not the norm, and even when you do find one, in most cases it doesn't stay that way. Things change at work, and that meaningful job could easily become a meaningless one overnight due to senior management. Find purpose in life that is not tied to your job.

lowiqengineer 6y ago
Even if they aren't representative of ability it's a strong signal if I keep getting rejected from Facebook (3 times for internship with final interviews, 2 times for onsite) and Google (2 times for internship, 1 time for full time onsite). You yourself say in a different comment that Amazon is easier to get into - that just means I'm less intelligent right? I did get into Citadel, but that was via their JavaScript domain specific interview process that had (as my friend described it) "mind-numbingly easy questions". It's easy to say that I shouldn't make getting hired into a company as a badge of honor...but I truly have no other accomplishments to speak of, even within Amazon. All of my friends seem to think I'm some sort of disappointment, or at least not successful. I wish I could avoid using my career as a factor for my self worth, but I don't make enough money to achieve my goals and won't for 2 promotions from now. It really feels like i'm both stuck and limited by my inherited intelligence.

sgwizdak 6y ago

The first thing to ask yourself -- are you happy? Are you working on problems that you think are interesting? Use that as a guide to determine if you need to change positions or companies. Benefits and comp are always great, but at a certain point you also start to examine your role in the world and the impact that you can have. Never sell yourself short, always look forward, and try to use the resources you have available to develop your skills. I've been with Amazon for about 15 years. There are a lot of employees who choose to be at Amazon and not Google/FB. There are pros/cons with each of the FAANGs and really any job. I find the problem space of Amazon's physical business to be fascinating to work on whereas I couldn't give a hoot about online advertising. With regards to benefits -- I've made enough in RSU appreciation for those differences to not matter. But I encourage people to carefully consider their own circumstances and look closely at long-term growth potential of whatever companies they're considering.