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I really dislike any attempt to modify strings like this. I find it invariably causes problems in edge cases. What if a site handles slashes differently to how

I really dislike any attempt to modify strings like this. I find it invariably causes problems in edge cases. What if a site handles slashes differently to how Google expects? Where do GET arguments go? What if I want to modify the URL? Breadcrumbs are great when each part is navigable, but does example.com/worldnews/2020/06 actually lead anywhere, or is it an invalid address for the site? I have absolutely no interest in Google being allowed to dictate what should and should not be a valid address. Probably worse than the change itself, though, is the tendency of anyone who makes such a change to start playing fast and loose with actually representing the underlying address. You mention Windows 10's address bar - it's one of the worst offenders. My Windows Explorer is currently sitting in my downloads folder, which is at "C:\Users\Wyatt\Downloads". The address bar reads "This PC > Downloads". When I click on the address bar to edit the address, it changes to just "Downloads". What part of all of this is in any way useful to me or the likely action I'm trying to take when I click on the address bar?

whoisthemachine 6y ago
Your arguments are definitely salient. However, I think there is something to this idea - a breadcrumb style approach by default in Chrome would encourage developers to use paths in more standard ways that refer to resources, not heavy parameter coupling. As you noted, there are technical barriers to implementing this solution, which might encourage some other good things - servers providing resource discovery so that the browser can understand valid paths when visiting a site.
- wyattpeak 6y ago
  I address that in my point: Google deciding what paths developers should use is precisely what I don't want. I'll decide what resources should be discoverable on my site, not Google. I'll decide what paths should be valid, not Google. Google has too much power to dictate standards already, and has been quite happy to use that power for their own sake, rather than the good of the user. I'm not interested in giving them any more.
  - sorenjan 6y ago
    My original point was not about Google specifically, it was about a new feature in browsers in general. I absolutely agree that Google have too much power already. And like I wrote in my first post, the resource discoverability could be handled by the site itself via some manifest file in a standard format, like robots.txt. It wouldn't be dictated by anybody else.
neycoda 6y ago
"This PC > Downloads" may point to the same directory as "C:\Users\Wyatt\Downloads", but Explorer may also handle or display differently or with different options. I've had various issues with this, such as not being able to copy the full actual path from the address bar, a sub-folder in one of these "This PC" folders or libraries showing no columns with no option to show them, and sometimes being indistinguishable from the Public folder. The full path matters in Explorer, Finder, and browsers, and should never be hidden without an easy visible way to show the full path or have it always show.
- csmoak 6y ago
  In Windows Explorer, if you click to the right of the breadcrumbs, you will get a text input with the full path to the current directory. If a solution for URLs were to attempt to switch to breadcrumbs (seems like it should be site-configurable via a meta tag or something), then a similar click to the right of the breadcrumbs could expose the underlying URL.
  - stOneskull 6y ago
    if you click Downloads, it won't give the C:\Users\User\Downloads path, it'll just give Downloads.
sorenjan 6y ago
> I really dislike any attempt to modify strings like this. I find it invariably causes problems in edge cases. What if a site handles slashes differently to how Google expects? I think it would have to be some standard format that websites use, not just string manipulation in the browsers. And certainly not some Google dictated feature! For the same reason, each part would have to be navigable on these sites, to work as I described. There's various possible solutions, like meta tags or some manifest like breadcrumbs.jsonld mentioned in another comment. The fact that Windows Explorer doesn't show the full URL in special folders is a separate issue, I only mentioned it for the breadcrumbs example.
- wyattpeak 6y ago
  If you're talking about something other than manipulating the URL, I don't understand what problem you're solving. Sites which believe that breadcrumbs would be helpful for navigation already have breadcrumbs, I see no reason to force it on everyone else. But I disagree with you that not showing the full address in Windows Explorer is a separate issue. In my experience loss of edge-case functionality is a core aspect of changing interfaces. Maybe in another world the address would be preserved, and my use case would still work. But someone else's unusual use would not.
  - sorenjan 6y ago
    Instead of manipulating the URL it would replace it, and instead of each site doing it their way it would be handled by the browser in the browser UI. Sites can implement their own back button too, doesn't mean that's where it belongs. Think about how Powershell use objects instead of text to chain together commands. The address isn't just text, it's structured data, why not treat it as such and make it more useful?

whoisthemachine 6y ago

Your arguments are definitely salient. However, I think there is something to this idea - a breadcrumb style approach by default in Chrome would encourage developers to use paths in more standard ways that refer to resources, not heavy parameter coupling. As you noted, there are technical barriers to implementing this solution, which might encourage some other good things - servers providing resource discovery so that the browser can understand valid paths when visiting a site.

wyattpeak 6y ago
I address that in my point: Google deciding what paths developers should use is precisely what I don't want. I'll decide what resources should be discoverable on my site, not Google. I'll decide what paths should be valid, not Google. Google has too much power to dictate standards already, and has been quite happy to use that power for their own sake, rather than the good of the user. I'm not interested in giving them any more.
- sorenjan 6y ago
  My original point was not about Google specifically, it was about a new feature in browsers in general. I absolutely agree that Google have too much power already. And like I wrote in my first post, the resource discoverability could be handled by the site itself via some manifest file in a standard format, like robots.txt. It wouldn't be dictated by anybody else.

neycoda 6y ago

"This PC > Downloads" may point to the same directory as "C:\Users\Wyatt\Downloads", but Explorer may also handle or display differently or with different options. I've had various issues with this, such as not being able to copy the full actual path from the address bar, a sub-folder in one of these "This PC" folders or libraries showing no columns with no option to show them, and sometimes being indistinguishable from the Public folder. The full path matters in Explorer, Finder, and browsers, and should never be hidden without an easy visible way to show the full path or have it always show.

csmoak 6y ago
In Windows Explorer, if you click to the right of the breadcrumbs, you will get a text input with the full path to the current directory. If a solution for URLs were to attempt to switch to breadcrumbs (seems like it should be site-configurable via a meta tag or something), then a similar click to the right of the breadcrumbs could expose the underlying URL.
- stOneskull 6y ago
  if you click Downloads, it won't give the C:\Users\User\Downloads path, it'll just give Downloads.

sorenjan 6y ago

> I really dislike any attempt to modify strings like this. I find it invariably causes problems in edge cases. What if a site handles slashes differently to how Google expects? I think it would have to be some standard format that websites use, not just string manipulation in the browsers. And certainly not some Google dictated feature! For the same reason, each part would have to be navigable on these sites, to work as I described. There's various possible solutions, like meta tags or some manifest like breadcrumbs.jsonld mentioned in another comment. The fact that Windows Explorer doesn't show the full URL in special folders is a separate issue, I only mentioned it for the breadcrumbs example.

wyattpeak 6y ago
If you're talking about something other than manipulating the URL, I don't understand what problem you're solving. Sites which believe that breadcrumbs would be helpful for navigation already have breadcrumbs, I see no reason to force it on everyone else. But I disagree with you that not showing the full address in Windows Explorer is a separate issue. In my experience loss of edge-case functionality is a core aspect of changing interfaces. Maybe in another world the address would be preserved, and my use case would still work. But someone else's unusual use would not.
- sorenjan 6y ago
  Instead of manipulating the URL it would replace it, and instead of each site doing it their way it would be handled by the browser in the browser UI. Sites can implement their own back button too, doesn't mean that's where it belongs. Think about how Powershell use objects instead of text to chain together commands. The address isn't just text, it's structured data, why not treat it as such and make it more useful?